Dull gray trigger, shiny frame

[Friar Whently]

I'll be purchasing a S&W J frame stainless revolver soon, and I was wondering about something I noticed. Why do stainless S&Ws (and perhaps other brands too, I'm not sure) come with ugly, dull gray triggers but a polished (or at least matte finished), slick-looking frame? Why not clean up the trigger and make the look uniform? Anyone have any insight?

 

[BarryLee]

While I do not have the gun right here I thought that the trigger on my M-66 was maybe coated as opposed to just raw steel. I don’t know maybe I am mistaken…

 

[Duke City Six]

Edited. I didn't realize it at first, but the OP is probably referring to new production. My comment was about older guns.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

S&W triggers on stainless guns are plated with industrial hard chrome. The parts are not stainless. The plating looks similar to stainless, and protects the part.

 

[Auto426]

As others have said, the hammers and triggers are not made of stainless, they are made of carbon steel. To protect these parts they go through a process known as case hardening which hardens the surface of the part and leaves the dull grey finish. It's something S&W has been doing on their revolvers since before the hand-ejectors were even introduced.

S&W triggers on stainless guns are plated with industrial hard chrome.

At one time they were. For the last 20 or so years stainless Smith's have used case hardened hammers and triggers just like their blued counterparts.

 

[Shadi Khalil]

This isn't meant to start any sort argument but if I'm not mistaken the trigger and hammer on newer S&W revolvers MIM parts? Is it possible to case harden MIM parts? I'm asking because I don't know, please enlighten me.

 

[gyvel]

I have a Smith & Wesson 22-4 1917 "replica" and the MIM hammer and trigger have a half hearted attempt at case hardening on them, so I guess it is possible.

 

[Webleymkv]

As I understand it, case hardening is unneccessary on MIM parts but S&W continues to do it for legal reasons. As the story goes, S&W was having problems with cheap Spanish knockoffs of their products in the late 19th and early 20th century. In order to differentiate their own products, they trademarked the color casehardened hammer and trigger so that, if a Spanish knockoff tried to copy it, S&W could sue the importer. However, because of this trademark, S&W is bound to keep the feature whether it's necessary or not. That's the story I heard anyway though I have no way to verify its validity.

 

[Duke City Six]

delete

 

[gyvel]

As I understand it, case hardening is unneccessary on MIM parts but S&W continues to do it for legal reasons. As the story goes, S&W was having problems with cheap Spanish knockoffs of their products in the late 19th and early 20th century. In order to differentiate their own products, they trademarked the color casehardened hammer and trigger so that, if a Spanish knockoff tried to copy it, S&W could sue the importer. However, because of this trademark, S&W is bound to keep the feature whether it's necessary or not. That's the story I heard anyway though I have no way to verify its validity.

That's a stretch. I would like to know more about that. I've read about the patent issues with the Spanish revolvers (which date from the 20th century), but I never heard that it had anything to do with color case hardened parts.

I don't know if all the S&W models have case colored MIM parts or not. I can only vouch for the 1917 "replica," where I assume it was done more for appearance than anything else.

 

[Auto426]

This isn't meant to start any sort argument but if I'm not mistaken the trigger and hammer on newer S&W revolvers MIM parts? Is it possible to case harden MIM parts? I'm asking because I don't know, please enlighten me.

It is possible to case harden the MIM trigger and hammers, and that's what S&W has been doing ever since they switch from the forged triggers and hammers. It's real case hardening, but from what I've heard the MIM parts don't produce the same color as the older forged parts, giving them the dull grey appearance.

As I understand it, case hardening is unneccessary on MIM parts but S&W continues to do it for legal reasons. As the story goes, S&W was having problems with cheap Spanish knockoffs of their products in the late 19th and early 20th century. In order to differentiate their own products, they trademarked the color casehardened hammer and trigger so that, if a Spanish knockoff tried to copy it, S&W could sue the importer. However, because of this trademark, S&W is bound to keep the feature whether it's necessary or not. That's the story I heard anyway though I have no way to verify its validity.

I know the "marcas registradas" stamping was started because of the Spanish knockoffs, but I've never heard of trademarking the casehardened parts. Didn't Colt produce guns with case hardened hammers and triggers at the same time?

 

[Dfariswheel]

S&W couldn't have trade marked color case hardened hammers and triggers, because firearms hammers and triggers had been color cased for hundreds of years before S&W was formed.

As above, S&W current MIM hammers and triggers are color cased, but the colors are more a faint dark gray instead of the more brilliant blues of the old forged steel parts.

The first stainless S&W revolvers like the Model 60 and 66 had real stainless hammers and triggers. S&W didn't like the way they wore so they started using standard forged carbon steel parts with a thin "flash plate" hard chrome finish.
In the 1990's, S&W stopped plating the parts and used the same color cased forged parts as blued guns. Then they went to the current MIM.

Many gun makers use flash plated carbon for some parts in stainless guns, and due to the thin rather porous hard chrome flash plate, it's common to see the hammers and triggers with rust. The porous plating allows moisture to pass through and the steel rusts.
S&W seemed to have a thicker, more dense plating on their hammers and triggers so you don't see rust that often.

 

[gyvel]

The first stainless S&W revolvers like the Model 60 and 66 had real stainless hammers and triggers. S&W didn't like the way they wore so they started using standard forged carbon steel parts with a thin "flash plate" hard chrome finish.

If I recall, the story I "heard" was that the very first orignal Model 64s that were issued to the Florida Highway Patrol had all stainless parts. It seems that, in order to achieve the necessary hardness required for hammers and triggers, the all stainless parts became too brittle and were prone to breakage.

After this issue was identified, Smith & Wesson began using plated carbon steel parts, but I read many years ago that it was a form of cadmium plating, not hard chrome.

 

[Tom Servo]

S&W couldn't have trade marked color case hardened hammers and triggers, because firearms hammers and triggers had been color cased for hundreds of years before S&W was formed.

The case hardening process itself wasn't trademarked, but the lack of said parts was an indicator that the gun was an unlicensed copy.

As above, S&W current MIM hammers and triggers are color cased, but the colors are more a faint dark gray instead of the more brilliant blues of the old forged steel parts.

I don't recall Smith ever bluing hammers and triggers. Nor did they nickel them. In fact, the presence of a blued hammer and/or trigger would usually indicate an aftermarket reblue.

 

[James K]

The case hardened hammer and trigger trademark story is true. Cheap Spanish revolvers were deliberately made to look like S&W's even to markings like

Use SMITH & WESSONcartridges.

By registering the case colored parts as a trademark (not a patent), S&W put the Spanish makers and their importers in a bind. If they didn't use the coloring, their guns wouldn't look like S&W's. If they did, U.S. Customs would seize the guns for trademark infringement.

And that is the reason S&W uses that "coloring" on parts today; they must, by law, continue to use and protect that trademark, or lose it, even though MIM parts are hard all the way through and are not actually case hardened. Other companies are similarly careful about trademark protection - put out a product with a copy of the Coca-Cola or Ford trademark and see how fast some corporate lawyer will be on your doorstep.

Jim

 

[newfrontier45]

I have a really hard time believing that S&W trademarked case colored hammers and triggers, considering how many other manufacturers have done it in the last 150yrs.

S&W used to flash chrome their parts.

The new parts are probably case colored but not hardened.

 

[Crankgrinder]

I too have heard that S&W now uses MIM triggers in fact i saw a new 686 in a video the guy was showing off he showed the trigger itself and pointed out the hollow backing of the trigger he said was produced by a mold. and im seeing that pop up on lots of guns not just smiths. think i saw one on an LCR a week ago. not saying its bad quality because its not necessarily. just my two c.

 

[Dfariswheel]

I don't recall Smith ever bluing hammers and triggers. Nor did they nickel them. In fact, the presence of a blued hammer and/or trigger would usually indicate an aftermarket reblue.

I was discussing S&W's color case hardening colors.
The new MIM parts have a color cased finish but the base color of the part is a steel gray with rather faint dark gray mottled colors.
What I meant by blue was the mottled blues you see in the older forged S&W hammers and triggers.
The base color is a brownish color with mottled blue colors.