Dryfiring modern rimfires?

[Nickel Plated]

So I just picked up a new S&W 17-9 .22. I know the "common wisdom" is to not dry-fire rimfire guns. And I read mentions of the S&W manual warning against it, but neither the manual that came with my 17 or 19 mention anything about dry-firing in them. Skimmed them both front to back (both the same, just a generic, labeled "Smith and Wesson Revolvers Modern Style" even went to S&W's site and did a search of the pdf version. Only hits from "rim" or "dry" talked about a dry patch down the bore and that certain rimfire ammo might have trouble igniting due to harder rims.
And many people report dry firing their S&W rimfire revolvers for decades with no issues. Is this sort of like the 3000 mile oil change? May have been wise words to live by at some point but no longer a real issue on modern designs? I did a bit of dry firing with it and see no marks on the cylinder or firing pin tip.

I figure if dry firing were still such an issue, S&W would have a prominent warning about it in the manual. Just want to smooth out the action some and get some trigger practice. Don't get to make it to the range too often unfortunately. Got 6 new guns here that have yet to see their first shot.

 

[JohnKSa]

Older guns in general, and older rimfires in particular should not be dryfired unless there's information from the manufacturer stating otherwise.

Modern guns will generally provide information about dryfiring in the manual--if no information is provided it's almost always safe to assume that you can dryfire it. Manufacturers don't want to have to work on guns for free so if there are things they worry will break the gun, they're usually not shy about telling you so.

Keep in mind that just because a gun can be dryfired safely doesn't mean that it will never, ever, ever, break from dryfiring. After all, guns eventually break from normal use and in many ways, dryfiring duplicates normal use.

 

[osbornk]

I have 9 rimfire guns (2 revolvers, 2 semi-auto pistols, 1 bolt action, 1 lever action and 3 semi-auto rifles). Some say I can dry fire, some say to not dry fire and some make no mention of it. My newest one says not to dry fire. I don't dry fire any of them just to be on the safe side and I can go to the back yard to shoot as much as I want and not spend much money.

 

[Targa]

Bad for the gun or not, I picked these up so I wouldn’t have to worry about it. https://www.amazon.com/Tipton-Snap-Caps-22-LR/dp/B0048KFHI8/ref=sr_1_1?hvadid=178112505837&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9028740&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=117692197828450342&hvtargid=kwd-9871744396&keywords=22lr+snap+caps&qid=1556500315&s=gateway&sr=8-1up

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Remember, when you are dry firing, the firing pin is abruptly stopped.
If you take a piece of metal, and constantly beat on it with a hammer-things happen.
Either metal is displaced, or it work-hardens and breaks- or both.
Guns should not be constantly dry fired.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

And, someone will be here shortly to tell you that drywall anchors work well as snap caps.
They don't. The firing pin simply pierces the soft plastic, which offers little to no cushioning effect.

 

[Nickel Plated]

So in the end I just pulled the bullets off of some 22LRs, dumped the powder and fired the primers in the revolver (that felt WAAAYY too much like those old toy cap guns, try it.) Basically made some empty brass without shooting it. Perfect snap caps.
Ofcourse after the first trip to the range, I'll have plenty more.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I always bring home a few from every range trip with a rimfire, just for this purpose. I keep a bunch in an old yogurt cup on the workbench.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

A picture is worth a thousand words department:

Most quality 22 rimfire revolvers are designed so the firing pin will not contact the cylinder.

This Ruger Three Screw Single Six left the factory in 1961. Notice the relief cut all the way around the cylinder. Yes, I pulled the bullet from a Federal round and fired the primed case for this photo. Notice the impression made by the firing pin. The firing pin will not strike the cylinder. I don't have a newer Single Six, but the guys at Ruger are no dummies, and I'll bet they are still making firing pin-smacking-proof cylinders.

Here are some photos I took a few years ago.

This first one is of a S&W K-22 (the forerunner of the Model 17) This one shipped in 1932. Notice the firing pin impression on the spent case. Again, the firing pin will not strike the cylinder IF THE CYLINDER IS PROPERLY IN BATTERY. Yes, over the years some dodo did allow the firing pin to strike the cylinder with the cylinder not properly locked up. After 87 years this old revolver still shoots just fine.

Next is my Model 17-3 that I bought brand spanky new in 1975. The counterbore around the rims is slightly larger than on the old K-22. You can see, again, the firing pin will not strike the cylinder. At least I have not managed to hit the cylinder with the firing pin in the 44 years I have owned it.

Last, is a Model 617-6 made in 2003. No way this firing pin is going to strike the cylinder either.

Yes, before anybody asks, the recesses in these cylinders are deep enough that without a cartridge in place, the firing pin will not bottom out on the cylinder.



HOWEVER......Bill DeShivs is absolutely correct. When a firing pin hits a primer or a snap cap, the blow gets cushioned. Without something to cushion the blow, the firing pin can be damaged by the abrupt stop. Long thin firing pins, such as on this Colt Single Action Army can have the tip separate and keep right on going if there is nothing to cushion the blow.

There are guys in CAS who dry fire their Rugers (mostly centerfire) endlessly in practice. And sometimes they break a transfer bar. For this reason I make it a practice to try to never dry fire any firearm. Not saying the firing pin will break the first time, but after a 100 hits, or a bazillion hits, it might.

By the way, spent cases with fired primers do not make good snap caps. The primer is already dented and will not cushion the firing pin. If you want to use spent 22 Rimfire cases, be sure to rotate the round so the firing pin will strike a fresh spot.

 

[SIGSHR]

I found some aluminum snap caps (forget the brand), others have said fired cases filled with glue, putty, something to fill the head and the rim,soften the impact.
I dry fire more than I live fire. Lets me practice all the fundamentals, since I own several 22 rifles lets me get the feel of each of them.

 

[rclark]

I make it a practice to try to never dry fire any firearm

Me too. Not saying you can't, I just don't. Not that I won't cock 'em, and then let the hammer down easy like. Just no 'extensive' dry firing. For example if I am showing a person a revolver and he/she wants to test the trigger pull, I'll allow that... But not sit there for 'hours' exercising the thumb and trigger finger. Any 'feel' I need will be felt at the range live firing. Rimfires growing up, I was taught not to dry fire them especially . Plus never felt the need to dry fire a weapon. Also was taught to treat every gun as if it was loaded. Extensive dry firing might build some bad habits ... My opinion though.

 

[jmr40]

Since this is in the revolver section I'll say that dry firing is more of a concern with revolvers than most semi-auto pistols or rifles. But I'm a big believer in dry fire practice. You won't find any top rifle shooters who don't regularly dry fire for practice.

I have a 1974 era Remington 700 that I conservatively estimate has been dry fired 100,000 times. It would have cost me $75,000-$100,000 to buy that many factory loads for live fire practice. I'm a much better rifleman today because of that "free" practice.

I regularly dry fire all of my centerfire rifles and most of my pistols. Some pistols I own specifically say no to dry firing. Not 22's nor any shotguns, although many 22's are OK with it, most shotguns are not. Based on my experience I'd say that "most" guns will break at exactly the same round count regardless of whether the practice came from live fire or dry fire.

But the key word is "MOST". If in doubt, don't do it.

 

[FrankenMauser]

I dry-fire everything that isn't high-risk, or prone to damage. ...Including my Browning Buckmarks, which DO let the firing pin strike the barrel / chamber face.

With things like the Buckmarks, it's only to de-cock them. I don't sit around repeatedly dry-firing. That would be ignorant.

But, with things like my Springfield 56 and Rugers, and even the NAA Mini, where the firing pin will not strike the chamber/cylinder, I'll give them a few more dry-fires if I'm feeling froggy.

In some cases, like with the Springfield(/Savage/Stevens) Model 56, it would be wise to treat the old girl a little better. Parts are scarce and my rifle is 80+ years old.
In others, like with the Buckmarks, I could use a fired case to soften the blow.
But I don't.
I am not afraid to track down spare parts, have obtained spare parts for most of them, assessed the parts and determined them easy to have made, or I know that I can repair the damage easily because I have the right tools. (Such as a chamber iron that the Buckmarks and some other .22s have seen, and a rim relief "healer" [it's a cutter] I just obtained by mistake [wrong tool shipped by a vendor].)

If the tool (gun) is so fragile that I can't dry fire it a couple of times without worrying about breakage, then I don't want it.
As I was saying in other context while talking to my brother earlier: I don't have enough time in my life for firearms that aren't reliable or can't hold up to being used the way that I need them to.
I don't collect. I shoot. I do take very good care of what I own. But I need them to work.
If I can't maintain the firearm, and it can't handle the way I want to treat it, it won't be around here for long...
(Which, mechanically, is a testament to those that I keep.)

 

[gwpercle]

I'm going to advise you not to dry fire rimfire revolvers .
You're a big boy , of legal age , so do as you please .
But don't start whinning and crying when you peen a rim .
Just suck it up , be a big boy and accept it .

 

[44 AMP]

IF you can't find the answer in a S&W manual (hardcopy or online), CALL S&W, and talk to a person, or three, and get an answer. Not from the receptionist, from a tech guy.

I have a Ruger new model Single Six. From the early 80s. The manual for it specifically states "Dry Firing will not harm this gun". SO, with that gun, I don't worry about it, at all.

Older rimfires may allow the firing pin to strike the chamber if no round or snapcap is in place. OR they may not, but may allow the firing pin to be stopped in such a way that over time, damage could result. IF you're unsure, use a snap cap /fired case

Everything should, and generally will survive the occasional snap. Even the old timers. But dry firing to simulate firing, where you snap the gun hundreds or thousands of times is something else. If the maker says its ok, go for it. If they don't (or aren't around anymore to be asked) use caps.

 

[AirForceShooter]

#4 drywall anchors are incredibly cheap.
Fantastic snap caps

I won't ever dry fire a .22. I don't care what the manual says

AFS

 

[osbornk]

I opened the box on my new Charter Arms Pathfinder and they had an insert all by itself placed where I couldn't miss it and it said in all caps:

IMPORTANT NOTICE: NEVER DRY FIRE A RIMFIRE FIREARM WITHOUT SNAP CAPS. AS RIMFIRE CARTRIDGES REQUIRE THE PRIMER TO BE STRUCK ON THE EDGE OF THE CARTRIDGE, DAMAGE TO THE CYLINDER WILL OCCUR.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Didn't anybody look at my photos?

Look where the firing pin is striking the rims.

Is it striking the cylinder?

Smith and Wesson has been making 22 rimfire revolvers since the 1930s, Ruger since the 1950s. They figured it out so the firing pin will not strike the cylinder. And the firing pin does not extend far enough to strike the surface of the metal in the recesses of the cylinder.

I can't speak for any other brands, but that is the story with S&W and Ruger.

I repeat what I said earlier about what repeated firing might do with the abrupt stop of an uncushioned firing pin, but dropping the hammer a few times on a Ruger or S&W 22 is not going to hurt anything.

 

[lunger]

Not my Photo. From another forum this is a SW 617, would not say that applies to all Smiths.

 

[44 AMP]

Smith and Wesson has been making 22 rimfire revolvers since the 1930s,

Seems to me S&W has been making .22 rimfire revolvers a little bit longer than that...weren't the very early (first?) S&Ws .22 rimfires, back in the 1860s or so??

Lets be clear about "dry firing". There are two kinds. Dry firing (snapping empty) so the gun isn't stored cocked, and dry firing practce where the gun is snapped empty hundreds to thousands of time for training.

Dry firing almost never hurts the gun. Dry firing practice, with certain gun designs absolutely can. Dry firing practice, with proper snap caps, doesn't.

What damages the gun is the firing pin making steel on steel contact, repeatedly. If the firing pin tip hits the chamber edge (enough), it can damage the firing pin, or the chamber or both can be damaged.

Some designs don't allow the pin to hit the chamber, but can be damaged by pin striking an internal shoulder (in the bolt, frame, etc) to stop it when there is no cartridge or snap cap in place. Repeated steel on steel contact can cause the metal to crystalize, and fracture.

Check with the gun's maker, if they give you the ok, you're good to go, if they don't, don't.

Fired .22 cases work well, for a while, just turn them in the chambers every once in a while so the firing pin hits a "fresh spot" No, they don't last forever, but they do come free with the price of shooting .22 ammo.