drawbacks of conversion revolvers?

B

Bob Wright

New member
I've never been into those types of revolvers, nor cap-and-ball revolvers, either. Truly the most beautiful of revolvers, they are fun to shoot so long as the ammunition is kept on the mild side.

Obviously they are not as rugged as sturdier made Single Action cartridge guns of the magnum class. And their sights don't lend them to precise shooting. This means of course, that they are not hunter's guns.

But for fun shooting, they are fine.

Bob Wright
 
M

Model12Win

Moderator
They would make a decent self defense gun too. Probably not plus pee rated, but with certain .38 special rounds it's not needed anyway. Very stylish guns, I may well get a '51 Navy Richard Mason conversion someday soon, an Uberti made gun.
 
I

idek

New member
Thanks for the reply.
And their sights don't lend them to precise shooting.
Click to expand...
That's probably what's kept me from getting a single action revolver. I know the Blackhawks are adjustable, but I don't like their lines as well as the conversion revolvers or Vaqueros.
 
K

Kosh75287

New member
The conversions won't be as strong as the Rugers. And you already heard about the sights. My other worry would be, if something breaks on the conversion, how easy is it to find and replace the broken part? I would think that if anything on a Ruger single action DID break (and I've never heard of it), a needed part is 72 hours away, and easily switched by a competent gunsmith.

If the arm might double as a defensive weapon, I'd want the sturdier revolver, just to minimize visitations by Murphy's Law.
 
M

michaelcj

New member
Ive had one of the 1860 Richardson-Mason in 38spl for several years. Well made, points very naturally, sights are more than adequate.

Shoot only "target" velocity wadcutters and semi-wadcutters through it.

Not a very practical gun, but fun and keeps up with my godson's Colt SSA 5 1/2" for accuracy and group size.
 
4

45 Dragoon

New member
Idek,
You should have posted this question on the black powder board where someone that actually knew what they were talking about could give you an intelligent answer.

Conversions are every bit as reliable, accurate and serviceable as any of the "other " S.A.s .
They also eat off the shelf fodder like any other well built S.A. and are proofed to higher pressures than the almighty S.A.A.!! (Cause they're built " over there"!)

I've got two 1st Mod.Dragoons (Uberti) both permanently converted to shoot .45 Colt that will routinely put six shots into 5 holes , 2" spread (center to center) at 33' (with Dragoon sights). And I don't get to shoot as often as I'd like to (I'm too busy making tack drivers for other folks).

Contrary to some folks thoughts on hunting, you might look up a guy named Hovey Smith. This guy hunts deer, boar, hog . . . with a Walker , and does it quite well. I reckon that might fall under the " fun shooting" heading?






Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram
 
Last edited:
I

idek

New member
Thanks for the continued replies...

Seems to be right up your alley 45 Dragoon. To be fair though, I don't know if anyone said they WEREN'T accurate or reliable... just that the sights aren't designed for hunting or serious target purposes and they don't seem to come in magnum cartridges.

I see some of them have a top strap and some don't. I prefer the looks of those without, but are there advantages to those with top straps?
 
4

45 Dragoon

New member
I take issue with the "of course, they're not hunters guns" from Bob. (Maybe I read it wrong?)

The transition from cap and ball to cartridge was quite a significant period and the companies today that offer conversion kits or conversion models allow us to see what they were like. The open top revolvers are quite strong and as much is bantered about how the Remington's are stronger with the top strap frame is just wrong. The square frame is actually weaker than the large arbor and its thick barrel lug support. The square frame is for the most part "ease of manufacturing". It's much easier to drill, tap and screw in a barrel than the arbor set up with two assemblies.
To make the top strap stronger, you increase the size of the top strap.

The advantage of a top strap is a better rear sight system (I'll give them that ! That's what 20+ yrs R&D will get you though). The top strap frame allowed the arbor to become a pin and move the cases in closer for a more compact package.

I will say, there is something about actually looking down the barrel instead of a more raised sight plane, that allows for better accuracy than you may think. The ability to take the open top down allows for better cleaning. I like both styles myself and on my website you can see a Remington type with 5 1/2" tube and a "drop cylinder" conversion. It works very very well and is one of my favorites! Of course the Dragoons are my all time favorites of any S.A.
(I believe Sam Colt rather liked the Dragoons as well )
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram
 
Last edited:
M

Magnum Wheel Man

New member
My buddy & I have done several conversions... from 32 S&W Colt Pockets, to an experiment with a Walker that shoots warm 45 Colt level loads on a cartridge based on the 460 S&W...

The top strap also adds something to the strength of the gun... but we have found other ways to strengthen the guns... we've been using the addition of a taper pin, to correctly index the cylinder gap, this takes some stress off the wedge, we also usually change out the cylinder arbor with known tool steel, & when possible increase the thread strength where it screws into the frame, & have done our own case hardening ( not color case hardening ) to get a deeper surface hardness, while keeping the inside more maliable which provides great toughness

I've also been bitten by the bug... there is just something about the looks of an open top Colt type gun...

my favorites so far are the 51 Navy based guns, of which I have a couple... one in 32-20, & a pair in 38 Long Colt... thinking about another pair in 44 American Bulldog... or even thinking about a custom based on slightly shortened 40 S&W cases

with the rear sight being on the hammer, there is the potential for inaccuracy, if you have a lot of sideways wiggle on your hammer, but if it is tight, & you're a handloader, it's not tough to get groups down to acceptable hunting accuracy... & altering the rear V notch is pretty easy as well

my buddy just did one based on shortened 41 magnum brass ( a 41 special ) I've been trying to talk him out of that one... if he holds out long enough, I may have to do one myself :)
 
Last edited:
B

Bob Wright

New member
From 45 Dragoon:
I take issue with the "of course, they're not hunters guns" from Bob. (Maybe I read it wrong?)
Click to expand...

No, Sir, you read exactly what I meant.

In Tennessee, black powder revolvers are prohibited for hunting big game.

The accuracy stated was 33', thats eleven yards, hardly a practical hunting range, at least in my part of the woods. Ranges here can be 50 to 100 yards, hardly within the scope of a black powder cap-and-ball or cartridge conversion revolver, at least to insure a clean kill.

From experience I know that the top strap of a revolver is under a great deal of tension, and will stretch even with strapped revolvers. I have had top-break revolvers experience damage to the locking lugs from this stress.

I know there are exceptions to every rule, but to infer I don't know what I'm talking about because one man has successfully taken game with a very potent cap-and-ball replica is slightly unfair.


For a revolver to be considered a good arm afield demands one of the most robust construction. Replicas don't meet this requirement.

Bob Wright
 
4

45 Dragoon

New member
Bob,
I don't live in the United States of Tenn. Just because it's prohibited there doesn't mean it's world law and or cannot be done or practiced elsewhere.
11 yards wasn't meant as a "hunting" range but rather a distance that one (who doesn't get to shoot as often as he would like) can put 6 rounds into a 2" area with regularity. If that's just average, that fine with me. My point is - it's not a pattern, it's a group!
I agree with you, top break revolvers are weak.
A "good arm afield" doesn't have to be any more "robust " than a S.A.A.. Factory conversions and my Dragoons are more than capable of that.
My only inference that you didn't know what you were talking about was from the information gathered from your answer about a subject that you admitted you've " never been into". Perhaps you may not be the best wealth of information to answer the OP in this case ? Too many broad statements for someone who almost exclusively shoots cartridge conversions to let slip by. I'm sure you can understand when someone talks down the S.A.A.s that may be less than . . . . a casual user of the S.A.A.

Hope I didn't step on toes too hard. Didn't mean to suggest anything about your knowledge in general, just about the subject at hand.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram
 
D

Driftwood Johnson

New member
Howdy

A friend has a pair of Uberti 1871 Open Tops chambered for 38 Special.

http://www.uberti.com/army-conversion-navy-conversion-and-open-top-revolvers

He had a problem at first with the firing pins bending because they are so thin. He replaced the firing pins with a pair of firing pins from The Smith Shop and the problems went away.

http://www.thesmithshop.com/openfire.html

He also has a pair of regular Navies that have been converted to shoot 38 Special. He shoots nothing but Black Powder in them in CAS and has no problems.

I have a mismatched pair of 1858 Remingtons that have R&D 45 Colt cylinders. The Stainless gun is an Uberti that I bought used along with the cylinder for a good price. The blued one is an old EuroArms import that I bought back in 1975. I had Taylors fit one of their cylinders to it.

IMG_0560enhanced.jpg


Remmie.jpg





Although these cylinders have been proofed for light Smokeless 'Cowboy' loads, I only shoot them with Black Powder. The Remington 1858 design is a bit troublesome to shoot with Black Powder because there is no gas ring or collet on the front of the cylinder to divert fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap away from the cylinder pin. This causes the cylinders to bind up with fouling after just a few shots. You can see in this photo I have cut some grooves around the pin to hold extra BP lube. I generally wipe off the front of the cylinders with a damp cloth after every cylinder full to keep the cylinders from binding. Not a problem because the cylinders have to be removed to load and unload them anyway.

RemmieandCylinder.jpg


I only shoot these guns in CAS. I only shoot them with Black Powder. Because of the grip shape of the Remington, the recoil tends to be a bit uncomfortable with a full house Black Powder 45 Colt load with a 250 grain bullet. Because of this I usually shoot the Remmies with 45 Schofield rounds with about 28 grains of FFg and a 200 grain bullet. The recoil is more comfortable with those loads.

All of the currently manufactured conversion revolvers are proofed for light Smokeless loads.


By the way, I take issue with the statement that Top Breaks are weak. No, they are not as strong as a solid frame revolver and you will never be shooting one with 454 Casull ammo or even 357 Mag ammo. But weakness or strength is a relative statement. I shoot old S&W Top Breaks all the time, with original Black Powder loads. No, I would not hunt with them (if I wuz a hunter). By the same token, I would not want to stand in front of a Schofield loaded with my BP Schofield loads. The Army felt pretty comfortable supplying Schofield ammunition to the Cavalry to be fired in both the Colt and the Schofield. 28 grains of FFg and a 230 grain bullet would put a man down every time, and it could put a horse down if the bullet were placed properly.

schofield01_zpse1ff6025.jpg
 
Last edited:
4

45 Dragoon

New member
My apologies DJ. I should have said weaker than most fixed strap models? But thank you for illustrating my point exactly!!! I will be the first to admit l am greatly hindered in the areas other than the operation and tuning of C&B , conversions, and S.A.s (Colt and or copies). I do though, know my " area" very well and will let folks know when they are walking in my yard.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram
 
4

45 Dragoon

New member
And another point!!!!
"Back in the day" , the "horse pistol" was in fact capable of just that !! Take out the horse, the rider will be easy!
It's quite a slap in the the face at history and those of us that "enjoy" that era, that what they had was "get by" stuff!! (Fun shooters, noise makers if you will!!! Puu leeze!!!) And after the conversions became available, with the increase in efficiency of the cartridge , it could be argued that the previous C&B revolver has been made not only "modern" (for the times) but more powerful and efficient as well!!!
Therefore, the modern made conversion is at least (but in reality far more ) up to snuff for our times!! The cartridges are the same as they have been (factory or reload) since they came into being!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram
 
H

Hawg

New member
Dragoon knows of which he speaks. If he tells you something about an open top revolver, especially about a Dragoon or a Walker you can take it to the bank.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top