Don't point that at me!

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Phoebe

New member
In 2 days, I have had 2 people point 2 guns in my direction.

One was a sales person at Bass Pro Shops.

The other was someone who is relatively new, probably having a stupid moment.

I'm starting to wonder if muzzle control is uncommon? :eek:

I know the Bass Pro guy was sure the gun was unloaded, but uh...

Is this a rare thing or a common thing?
 
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DanThaMan

Moderator
I hope it's a VERY rare occurance :mad:. Somewhere on TFL i recall reading a post about a gun-shop employee having a gun pointed at him from a patron and he said "bang," only to be disarmed by the employee. I agree whole-heartedly with the employee's actions... in fact I would have suggested the use of greater force to greet the patron's stupidity (not shooting him, I just mean a safer alternative to pistol whipping... maybe a hefty stapler to the face or something).

Anyways I have never had a muzzle pointed in my direction my mistake or purpose. I hope you brought it to their attention and verbally reamed them so they don't ever make the mistake again. Loaded or not, humans make mistakes, and steps can be taken to avoiding fatal mistakes.
 
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Brian Pfleuger

Moderator Emeritus
From what I've seen, muzzle control on handguns is generally horrific. Even with people who are very disciplined with rifles.
 
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Shane Tuttle

Staff
I'm not making excuses for gunshops. However, with the sheer number of people strolling about behind you and employees behind the counter it's almost always going to happen. It's just one of those issues that happen all too frequently. Again, I'm not saying it's OK. But if you're uncomfortable with it if it occurs, I'd speak up. Sternly, but keep your emotions in check. Be ready for a snotty response such as "It just came from under the glass and besides, I checked it to make sure it's unloaded". Remember Cooper's 4 rules of gun safety, namely numero uno. All guns are ALWAYS loaded. I'd respond in kind by saying you didn't check it yourself and don't want to have your life compromised by some stranger sweeping the muzzle at you. By then, you'll either get your wish or the fellow customer may get snotty. If the employee doesn't step in by this time to squelch the issue and err on the side of safety, at least you'd know not to patronize that shop anymore.
 
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raftman

New member
peet, That's true, I have a friend, who is generally very safety conscious, but fires rifles pretty much exclusively; he once accidentally pointed a loaded Nagant revolver at me. I'm a pretty mellow guy, so I just calmly told him, "watch where you point that thing." He immediately pointed it elsewhere and apologized for nearly killing me.
 
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Rich Miranda

New member
The problem with looking at handguns in a crowded store is that it's nearly impossible to keep from pointing the muzzle at somebody. Some of the shops I frequent have folks all around. While I examine a gun, the muzzle has to point somewhere. And trying to avoid it takes 100% of your attention and it's still not possible. Not an excuse, but an explanation.

Still, when the clerk hands you the gun, there is no excuse for pointing it at you.
 
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m&p45acp10+1

New member
I can honestly say that as far as gun stores go every clerk I have dealt with has always opened the weapon and checked the chamber before ever handing it to a customer. Most have also opened and checked it before returning it to the shelf.
Gun shows are a totaly differant ball game altogether. Hence one of the reasons I like the zip ties on the weapons at gunshows for this exact reason.
If you are not showing proper muzzle control at the range that I frequent you are going to be having a discussion with the rangemaster whom also happens to be a local LEO. Any further happenings of that nature you will be permantly barred from coming back.
I am a survivor of an accidntal shooting and am not afraid to let someone know that what they are doing is very dangerous.
 
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Kyo

New member
im like the bearer of bad news for you huh kayla?
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=467010
i do agree that in a gun shop where it is busy its very hard. the place I go to you bump elbows on a normal basis. I will be honest, if the slide is back on the slide lock i pay less attention because i see that it is clear with my own eyes.
my habit is to go to the ground. yes, i sweep feet but you can help it. the ceiling is the best other place but that isn't even viable sometimes.
 
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greyson97

New member
pointing a gun at someone is very bad form, esp in a store. nothing say noob more than that. I usually point it at the gun rack, either to the left or right of the employee.

Ive been swept with gun barrels a few times, but i knew the gun was empty. I still told them "Hey, don't point that at me." as far as i know, ive never had a loaded gun pointed at me.

and its really bad when a person has bad muzzle control combined with bad finger off the trigger control.
 
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Tom Servo

Staff
Somewhere on TFL i recall reading a post about a gun-shop employee having a gun pointed at him from a patron and he said "bang," only to be disarmed by the employee.
Click to expand...
So it isn't just me. I don't think I ever posted about it here, but I had that exact situation a couple of years back. The guy who did it acted very affronted and claimed I had injured his hand.

This happens constantly lately. After telling one guy to watch the muzzle once, I said, "what are you doing waving a loaded gun around?" He turned sheet white and placed the rifle on the counter. His hands were shaking. When he saw me take the weapon and prove clear, he started in to a tirade about how I'd "embarrassed" him.

It's not just newcomers, either. I had a very stern talk with a competition shooter (?!?) over this the other day.

Just a heads-up: "it's unloaded" is never an acceptable response.
 
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ProjectCamaro

New member
There is NEVER an excuse for pointing a weapon at a person. When I go to a gun shop and look at a pistol I instantly point it down even if there's no one else there because I do not know what's behind the walls in case a shot was fired and went through the drywall.

I feel very strongly if you can't practice one of the four rules of firearm saftey then you should not be touching a firearm.

I'm sorry, I'm actually a pretty laid back person but firearms have the ability to kill someone so we have to take it very seriously.
 
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jamiejaf

New member
Well, in the military, one can have hundreds of rifles pointed at ones self in some instances. Buyers and sellers handling guns don't bother me at all. Most gun stores don't have a safe zone to point at. I only get concerned when you know a gun is "hot" like when you're out hunting or on the range.
 
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MLeake

New member
When I was teaching my younger cousin (then age 12) to shoot...

...he, being a good kid but also an incorrigible wisea$$ (after all, he was 12), asked me what I'd do if he "accidentally" swept me with the muzzle at the range. He asked this in front of his grandmother, who is a former Army medic.

I told him I'd punch him in the head, and the day at the range would end rather abruptly.

He looked at me, with that 12 year old, you-can't-be-serious-but-I'm-not-quite-sure half-smile, and asked, "you're kidding, right?"

Before I could answer, his grandmother said "no, he's serious. And if he didn't punch you in the head, I would."

We then went to the range for the first of several, uneventful sessions.

But frankly, I would have punched him in the head if merited. I wouldn't have hurt him too badly, but I'd have done whatever necessary to get his full attention.

Not only did he not ever sweep me (or anybody else) with a muzzle, but he got a lot of compliments on his safe weapons handling from the rangers who instructed his hunter's safety course a few weeks later. On top of that, he was the only kid to hit all of his targets. Top score in the classroom and at the range for his age group.

To this day, he's quick to point out to me any safety violations he sees, and he is very aware of his muzzle.

He pays attention to where his gun is pointing, too.
 
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sp-train-77

New member
I instructed for about eight years, both police and security types, no general public. I usually taught at least two classes per month. In about 50% of the classes someone's weapon would mis-fire or otherwise not work. Instead of raising their hand, they would turn towards me still holding the revolver and ask what was wrong. I would just calmly point the muzzle toward the ground and turn them back toward the target then give them the lecture again. My students swept more far more than any bad guys did.
 
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Phoebe

New member
I can't envision a circumstance in any store I've been in, where there isn't a safe(r) direction than AT me. At a gun show, I can see where there might not be a safe direction.

The Bass Pro guy could have pointed it behind him or at the floor. There was really no excuse based on the store layout.

The slide was not back. I had no way to know if it was clear. I wondered if it was assumed that being a brand new gun, it's never been loaded. Wondered if I missed a memo that says it's okay to point new guns at people. :rolleyes:

Twice in two days is what really spun me. I was starting to wonder if i had a target on me!
 
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swk314

New member
It does happen all the time. I used to frequent a gunshop that had the plastic barrel plugs in them. You would have to take the pistol apart in order to remove it.
 
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azredhawk44

Moderator
Well, I'm glad to see kayla joining the chat fraternity here after her recent ordeal. Wasn't sure if you'd make it long term or not.

Man, gun shows horrify me.

Heck, Appleseeds horrify me as an instructor, sometimes. We go thru some significant orientation, dozens of clearing drills per day, meticulous line safety and I STILL refuse to even point one of my dummy "Massachusetts legal M14" stocks at a participant or fellow instructor when demonstrating a position or technique.

(These "Mass legal" M14's literally consist of no bolt/receiver/trigger/sights/barrel/gas-system/anything but the stock of a rifle...)

I don't go to gun shows any more. Too many people pointing guns in my direction.

I've been in gun shops where the staff (and regular patrons) was tensed and ready to draw on a young fella looking "for the most inexpensive gun in the store" with friends to accompany him during the shopping experience.

Frankly, I'm glad I have all the guns I need at this point. Y'all scare me.:p
 
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