Don't laugh...

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SaxonPig

New member
One of my favorite rifles. Got it from a buddy who owed me some cash and offered this as a barrel/action. Picked up the scope at a local show for a very low price. The Ramline stock was way cheap from a catalog outfit. Very lightweight and compact (18" barrel), extremely rugged and reliable with the scaled down Mauser 98 action, shoots 1/2" groups at 100 yards with military ball ammo.

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dahermit

New member
Just to put things into perspective, it does not, "... shoots 1/2" groups at 100 yards..." what it does do is, "shoots three shot 1/2" groups at 100 yards". There is a subtle difference. Shoot five shots, letting your rifle cool between shots and you will see the difference.
 
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pete2

New member
DANG, 3 shot groups are very good for a regular rifle. Very few out of the box guns shoot 1/2" 3 shot groups. Shoot it slow and it should do the same for 5 shots.
 
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jmr40

New member
Just to put things into perspective, it does not, "... shoots 1/2" groups at 100 yards..." what it does do is, "shoots three shot 1/2" groups at 100 yards". There is a subtle difference. Shoot five shots, letting your rifle cool between shots and you will see the difference.
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Three shot groups have always been the benchmark for hunting rifles. I could care less what any of mine doe for 5 or more shots unless I'm playing some shooting game that requires 5 shots. Never going to be an issue with a hunting rifle.

The key is consistency over time. What a hunting rifle does with 3 shots over and over again over a period of months and years tells the story. Lots of rifles shoot tiny groups, but every range session results in those tiny groups impacting in different points on the target.

Five groups of 3 shots tells me more about how accurate the rifle is than three groups of 5 shots. Same number of rounds, but 3 shots in a string tell me what the rifle can do. More shots tell more about the concentration of the shooter and how well the barrel handles heat.
 
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SaxonPig

New member
1. I am not a serious competitive shooter. Three shot groups work for me.

B. Five shots allowing cooling between shots would not be terribly representative of the type of shooting I do. Three rounds fairly quickly is more closely aligned to my needs. Again, not shooting paper seriously.

3. Given my usual level of marksmanship I was very happy with this result at an honest 100 yards. This is not an every day occurrence for me.

I liked the little Mauser so much that when I saw this at a local show last year marked 20% off retail as a "show sale" I jumped on it like a frog on a June bug. Very European looking.

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Scorch

New member
I have an old Interarms Mini-Mauser in 223. For years, it was the most accurate rifle I owned. It consistently shot 1/2" 5-shot groups at 100 yds. It has opened up a little over the years, I haven't tested it with good ammor lately, probably still around 5/8".
 
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bamaranger

New member
agreed

Yeah man, a tidy .223 bolt is a useful rifle, and mine has superseded my .357 lever carbine as a light GP rifle, the MiniMauser being scoped while the old Marlin is not (currently). Faster and flatter, the utility afield on pests over the little lever gun and its pistol cartridge became apparent quickly.

Three shot groups are acceptable in my book, especially with the cost of ammo or components these days. I'd add that my experience with the Minimauser is that the slim tube heats up fast, and accuracy does slip a bit with extended groups and shooting.

One comment: I don't think the MiniMauser is a true scaled down "mauser", as the extractor is not a long leaf but short as on maybe a Sako. I think the feed system overall is push feed, as opposed to controlled as on a true Mauser.

But...it is indeed a tidy and scaled down rifle, and mine is not for sale!
 
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Ricklin

New member
Mmmmm

Saxonpig, I am a sucker for a Mannlicher stocked carbine. Love the short little scope too.
That is a gorgeous piece. What does it weigh?
 
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JohnKSa

Administrator
Neat little rifle. Pictures don't do this kind of gun justice. You need to hold one to understand how cool they really are.
 
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smee78

New member
I would love to have a little shooter like the ones shown, I don't know how much money your friend owed you but I think you came out ahead with that gun.
 
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SaxonPig

New member
I think we agreed on $165 value. I paid $25 for the scope and $49 for the stock. Also picked up 2,000 rounds of 223 with 55 grain FMJs for $59/1K.
 
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fourbore

New member
Easy way to understand who is right in this. Place 3 red spots, each 1 inch diameter on a target at 100 yards and see how many you hit. A 1/2 moa, should hit near center every spot. Go ahead, try it.

BTW, this is a push feed, not a scale down Mauser. It has a dummy/cosmetic mauser 98 look-a-like extractor. Darndest thing I ever saw. These maybe fine guns for the price, I only mention this for an accurate record. Someone might buy sight unseen off the web, expecting a mini-Mauser. Some great rifles are push feed.

I do think that is very impressive shooting with low cost ammo. I have to pay up for Hornady to see 1/2 groups with either of my 223 rifles. I though the ammo itself was limited in capability. Looks like you got a good batch from somebody.
 
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RC20

New member
Just to put things into perspective, it does not, "... shoots 1/2" groups at 100 yards..." what it does do is, "shoots three shot 1/2" groups at 100 yards". There is a subtle difference. Shoot five shots, letting your rifle cool between shots and you will see the difference.
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There are basicly two shooting areans.

Hunting: Seldom more than one shot. Occasionally two. 3+ like I did once you just really hosed it up and only the first two grazed it. Close, no cigar.

I was perfectly happy with 1.5 inches in the old 7mm, it shot those same 3 each time in the same spot. If its wild and ranges 6 inches from one cold 3 shot group to another that's one thing. Otherwise, that's perfect.

I have a 270 Pencil barrel I am going to get back to, first shot is 1.5 inches to the left, then two close together. That is not good. That's with good barrel cool down. Challenge will be to see if I can get 3 to shoot like SPs.
If the first two shots were close I could live with it just fine. First one off that far and two that make it more 2 inch group, no, not good.

Target: Yep, that's where the 5 shot and 10 shot groups tell the story.

It also separates out target shooters from non target but says nothing about how good they are hunting.

I shoot 5 shot groups but I am all target these days.
 
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ThomasT

New member
BTW, this is a push feed, not a scale down Mauser. It has a dummy/cosmetic mauser 98 look-a-like extractor. Darndest thing I ever saw. These maybe fine guns for the price, I only mention this for an accurate record. Someone might buy sight unseen off the web, expecting a mini-Mauser. Some great rifles are push feed.
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The original Ruger model 77 rifles had the look-a-like Mauser extractor but were in fact push feeds also. And they work just fine. So I think in the end it is of no real consequence.

Saxon you got a good deal. My only non semi auto 223 is an H&R Handi Rifle. But its a shooter. And short and well, handy.:D
 
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dahermit

New member
Three shot groups have always been the benchmark for hunting rifles.
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Always? How old are you? I think it is a matter of what age you are.

https://www.shootersforum.com/rifles-rifle-cartridges/67886-3-5-shots-group.html

http://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/3-shot-or-5-shot-groups-100yrds.715300/

http://http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/279218_The_Trouble_With_3_Shot_Groups.html
I'm with you, though...a "group" is 5 shots. Anything less is changing the standard of excellence by lowering the sample size. A 3-shot sub-MOA group is cool n' everything, but to my way of thinking, that's not a sub-MOA gun/load until it does it with 5 rounds.
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