Don't fly your flag out front!

John/az2

New member
http://www.newsobserver.com/standing/collections/wake/200000005112.html

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Long may it wave -- but not out front
Cary man carries the banner against his neighborhood's flag restrictions.



Al Martin, who lives in Cary's Williamsburgh Commons neighborhood, says his flag will remain on his front porch.

By JAY PRICE, Staff Writer

CARY -- Al Martin figures that he's no more patriotic than the next guy, even though he has flown Old Glory outside his various homes for at least 17 years. But around Memorial Day, almost on a whim, he decided to move the flag from the back of his house to a more prominent place on the front porch.

Turns out the flag's placement was a little too prominent.

On Monday, Martin received a call from the company that enforces the restrictive covenants for Williamsburgh Commons, his subdivision. He could take the flag down or move it to a more discreet location beside or behind the house, but one way or another the flag had to go.

Martin, a soft-spoken communications consultant, said he was irate. July 4 is just days away, after all.

"On top of that, Saturday was my last day serving on the National Guard after 20 years, and I just couldn't believe it," he said. "I think we should be able to fly the American flag whenever, however and wherever we want. Everyone all up and down this street should have flags flying."

Three of his neighbors in the meticulously groomed subdivision -- situated on the south side of Cary and styled closely after Colonial Williamsburg -- apparently disagree. They complained that Martin wasn't following the rules, said Sheri Fincher of R.S. Fincher & Co., the business that maintains the subdivision's appearance and enforces the rules.

Flags are allowed, but only on the sides or backs of the homes, and Martin will either have to move his or take it down, she said.

Martin, who moved to the neighborhood about three years ago, said he thinks the rule was aimed at the pineapple flags and other theme flags that have become popular decorations on suburban homes in recent years, but surely it wasn't meant to include Old Glory.

"It's legal to burn the flag, but it's not legal to display it," he said. "I could probably burn it out front and they wouldn't care. Well, maybe they would if it caught the grass on fire."

Even if Martin fights for his flag, the neighbors will only have to put up with it for six months at most: He is selling his house and moving to Apex, where he is building a home. But until then he vowed not to strike his colors.

"It's staying up, that's all there is to it," he said. "Basically, I just want to fly my flag. I don't want to make a big deal out of it, I just want to leave it up. And I will until I get a court order."

"He'll get one," Fincher said. "We'll go as far as we have to. He will move that flag if we have to fine him daily to get him to do it."

State law, she said, allows the homeowners association to fine Martin up to $150 a day if he doesn't comply with the covenants.

Martin was aware of the rule, she said, since he had to sign documents that included the covenant when he bought the house.

There are perhaps three other American flags in the neighborhood -- which is home to several veterans -- and they follow the rules and attach them to the side or back of the home, she said.

"These rules have always been in place there," she said. "For whatever reason, this guy just wants to act like Nazis are trying to take down his flag, and I'm offended that he's using our nation's flag to gain notoriety.''

Martin can seek a change to the rule, but only if he can get 90 percent of homeowners in Williamsburgh Commons to agree, she said. He also could seek special permission from the association's architectural committee, but that might be hard to get, because such permission would set a precedent.

Martin said he wouldn't be asking for permission.

"I don't think I should have to," he said.

In recent years, courts have tended to side with homeowners associations when a resident fights a specific covenant, particularly when the language of the rule is unambiguous.

Henry W. Jones, a Raleigh lawyer who represents more than 200 community associations, estimated that between 5 percent and 10 percent of them explicitly restrict flag placement and that more general language in others' covenants could restrict flags, too. He said he has had two or three cases in which residents objected to restrictions on flying their flags, but in each a settlement was reached before the case went to court, typically with the homeowner moving the flag or taking it down.
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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
www.cphv.com
 

dZ

New member
i could see the point if he had one of thoose ornamental teddy bear flags but flying our Nations Flag?

Perhaps he should haul up a Gadsden flag
gadflg.gif


[This message has been edited by dZ (edited June 29, 2000).]
 

FUD

Moderator
Sounds like my sub-division but here one of those "ornamental teddy bear" flags IS allowed. Only the American flag isn't! Fines are $100 a day -- if unpaid, a lein is placed against the property and the mortgage company isn't too happy!
 

FUD

Moderator
Oleg, No. (right now I have other battles which are on-going with the association -- such as why the guy 3 houses over is putting garbage out in cardboard boxes and not being fined but I am) FUD.
 
Agree, dZ!! I like yours better. Where's you get it?

Someone needs to come up with a Gadsden Flag that has the text of the BoR on either side of the snake.

gadsden.gif


[This message has been edited by Franklin W. Dixon (edited June 29, 2000).]
 

Outlaw1

New member
They would LOVE my neighborhood. :D
It's only a mile and a half long, but there are five 3rd Nationals flying proud, and three of them are on 40' poles.
The MIA flags are also a nice sight.

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"Rise like lions after slumber in invanquishable number - Shake your chains to earth like dew which in sleep had fallen on you - Ye are many - They are few."
-Percy Bysshe Shelly (1792-1822)
 

mk86fcc

New member
So if this guy put a 40' pole on the side of his house he'd be ok? That's sure what it sounds like. Think I'd be real tempted - top it off with about 9x15 flag...

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"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
"Power corrupts. Absolute power - is kinda cool!"
Fred Reed
 

Erik

New member
Isn't there another case where a neighbor has claimed that the flapping of the flag is a noise violation? I recall hearing some such nonsence on the tube last week, though I didn't pick up the details.
 

Roybean

New member
May I suggest that if you choose to fly the flag, fly it upside down so it will seen as a sumbol of distress.
 

Jeff Thomas

New member
I've gotta be honest here ... why do people keep buying homes in these restrictive subdivisions? C'mon folks! Read the contract, the CC&R's ('covenants, conditions and restrictions') or whatever you call 'em in your state.

Yes, I think this kind of thing stinks too, but geez ... this guy may very well like it that he gets to vote on what color his neighbor can paint his house, but he doesn't care for this flag restriction.

These issues come up every now and then, and you know ... I think it's a bit silly. This is not an example of government intruding in our lives ... this is an example of people buying property which is restricted in its use! If they don't want these stupid restrictions, then they should buy elsewhere. And, if more people did that, there would be fewer of these subdivisions around.

Sheesh.

Regards from AZ

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited June 30, 2000).]
 

Magoo1

New member
If thast was me, and I could afford it. When I sold my house I would sell cheap, to the most undesirable people I could find.
 
P

PreserveFreedom

Guest
I have no doubt they would allow a UN flag in that type of neighborhood.
 

IZZY

New member
Increadable! Who thought up this crazy restriction any how!

I have to agree with Jeff Thomas on this one. Let's use our "consumer" vioce and stop getting hoodwinked by overzelous fools.
 

Hoppy

New member
I have to agree with Jeff Thomas as well.

It could become a larger problem when town bylaws start to get outta hand along those lines. I can't imagine a town restricting flag flying, but you never know.
In my town, which is fairly rural and has multiple working farms, they have been trying to limit "junk" (whatever they deem it to be)ie. a tractor's field mower, to one cubic yard, and contruction/work noise cannot begin until 7:30-8:00am. I guess they don't realize people are limited in daylight during the winter and need to start when the sun comes up.

You just have to stay on top of them.

I think the 40 foot flag pole on the side of the house is a great idea, I'm putting one up in front of mine once it's built.
 

David Scott

New member
The guy should call the ACLU and have their free lawyers argue that, just as burning the flag is Constitutionally protected political free speech, flying the flag is too. May as well get some use out of the ACLU.
 

Danger Dave

New member
I think I'd read my covenent again. Maybe put up a sign - or a flag, or both - that says "The covenents here suck". Or just paint it on the house, or burn it in the lawn with weedkiller where every potential homebuyer can see it.
 
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