Does your Saiga do this to brass?

[chris in va]

Apparently it's normal and built into the gun from the factory to differentiate between a military and civilian version of the gun. Just thought I'd share and find out if anyone else's Saiga does the same thing.

It resizes fine so not worried about that issue.

 

[Ozzieman]

Is the vertical to horizontal scale to the photo correct?
I guess my question is what caliber is it. It looks to fat and short to be a 7.62 or .223.
Can you put a loaded round next to it or tell us what it is?
Saiga , 7.62х39 and .223 Rem.
Saiga-M, Saiga-М3, Saiga-MK , 7.62х39 and .223.
Saiga-5.6, Saiga-5.6S, 5.6х39 cartridge
Saiga-308, 7.62х51 (.308Win) cartridge
Saiga-9, 9x53R cartridge.

 

[chris in va]

You're over-thinking this one. 7.62x39.

 

[howlnmad]

I wish I could make the picture out a little better. What exactly are we seeing? Is it fluted?

 

[brokenfeather]

308 saiga case dents

I have a 308 which so far only puts a ding in the case much like the one on yours. In the side a about half way down the case. See the attached photo. See this link for more information http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php...176&hl=+case +dings&fromsearch=1&#entry590176 another case denting link http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f19/saiga-308-dented-shells-11546/
Hope this helps
Don

 

[.22lr]

This is NOT normal

It appears to me that the shoulder-neck junction is incorrect.

7.62x39 diagram:

There is transition from the shoulder to the neck has a diameter of 8.60 millimeters. This should be the same case mouth (8.60 millimeters). A fired cartridge will expand slightly above these numbers, but the case mouth and the shoulder-neck junction should be almost identical.

It appears to me that your chamber was reamed incorrectly. Though I am not a gunsmith, a misreamed chamber is almost certainly dangerous. I would return the firearm as soon as possible and accept either an exchange or a refund, not a “repair”.

My theory is that the chamber was mistakenly cut for a 5.56x45mm chamber, the mistake was realized and then was redone with a 7.62x39mm reamer. Based off of available cartridge dimensions, I would guess that the bulge at the shoulder-neck junction would be approximately 9 millimeters.

5.56x45mm Diagram (the diagram was rather large to display here)

I believe your situation to be dangerous. You should not fire this rifle until it can be replaced. The brass is being severely overworked at the shoulder-neck junction and should be held suspect and probably discarded.
VR

~Matt

 

[JD 500]

Looks like that case has two shoulders ?

Any chance of a picture with that case, and a loaded round next to it ?

I'm no expert, but I would think at a minimum that condition will overwork the brass ( Assuming it's even safe ). It sure wouldn't help accuracy either.

I'm with .22lr, kinda makes me wonder if chamber was cut incorrectly.

 

[misskimo]

Take it to a gun smith. Kinda looks like a machining mishap , But like you said. Sounds good to me. They made these guns for shooting brass one time and not for reloading. Steal cases and all
Glad my russian 1954 SKS doent do this,

 

[Fullthrottle]

This is normal with the Saiga! There was a groove built into the saiga's to provide a differance in civilian vs. russian gov't use! This is only for the Saiga 7.62x39, and not found in all other calibers. 7.62x39 is a russian military caliber.

Do some research on google or http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=7303 about this!

I do however reload for my Siaga in 7.62x39 and the dies iron this bulge out without problems!

 

[.22lr]

A warning for a bulged chamber is not in the Importer's manual nor on the manufacturer's website. Without a citation from the company or a government site, (undocumented internet lore is not an acceptable source) I would not accept this explanation. If this is truly a Russian Law, there should be a way to provide a link to a Russian govt website.

Also, I would never buy a rifle whose chamber was reamed incorrectly on purpose!

I stand behind my earlier post. This is not right. It may be dangerous. I would discard all cases fired through this rifle (whether the bulge is by design or not).

I'm ready to be wrong, but I have yet to find any verification of the "Russian gun control theory"

~Matt

 

[chris in va]

I sent an email to the Ishmash factory contact and will post if/when I get a reply.

 

[.22lr]

Chris,
Excellent! I am more than willing to be proven wrong, and I would be thrilled if a definitive, documentable answer is found. I really hope the response from the maufacturer points to s specfic law that we can look up as a community.

That said, I still think the design is crazy and would discard any brass casings fired in that rifle. I would be too worried about leaving the neck in the chamber before other signs of brass failure appeared.


VR

~Matt

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I really hope the response from the maufacturer points to s specfic law that we can look up as a community.

Nobody, at least in this thread, said anything about a "law". It's supposedly a method of differentiating between military and civilian rifles. Maybe it is normal, maybe it isn't. I don't know why it would be a "law" though.

 

[chris in va]

Still haven't heard back from the factory, but I've reloaded these cases four times now with no problems. Many other Saiga owners report the same shoulder shape so I'm not worried about it.

 

[cheezhed]

My son has a saiga rifle that does that also and has never been a problem.
My understanding is also that this is to determine if the case was fired from a military or civilian rifle but having said that I have a much older saiga that does
not do that to the case nor does it shoots better or worse than my sons rifle. The front trunion on my rifle is slightly different from my sons so slight changes have been made over the years. I would not worry about this using steel cased ammo.The step in the case is a Russian requirement not American.

 

[Sport45]

Is it a step in the neck area of the chamber, or is the case being yanked out while there's still too much pressure in the chamber?

 

[chris in va]

I looked, there's definitely a deliberate step in the chamber.

I suspect it was designed to use steel case ammo, and when us zany Americans decide to reload brass ammo, it becomes more readily apparent as the metal is much softer. Just a theory.

 

[prairiedoghunter]

My brother had a saiga that did the exact same thing, interesting design if they planned it that way, never had a problem with it except for terrible accuracy.