Does your local gun shop shoot itself in the foot?

[Jamie Young]

I go to My local gun shop for gun smithing or gun cleaning stuff. I NEVER buy ammo or reloading components because it's a rip-off. The owner of the gun shop was going off the other day about how gun shows are doing in the local shops.

Of all the gun shops in My area, I don't think any of them charge less than $15-$18 for a box of Winchester 45acp. I can get the same ammo for $10 at a gun show. I just can't pay $18-$20 for 20rds of Hydra-shoks, when I can get them for $12 at a gun show. I won't pay $22 for .308 or 30/06 match ammo when I can get it for $12 at a gun show. I won't pay $270 for a Remington 870 when I can get one for $200 at a gun show. AR15 rifles going for over $900 when I can get them for close to $750 NIB at a gunshow. Forget about having more "over
head" when your a shop owner, nobody is going to buy your stuff when you can it 50% cheaper some place else. Why can't they just mark things up like 15-20% and sell more of it? Didn't these
people take business courses in college?

 

[KSFreeman]

The market determines price, supply and demand. Someone is buying it. If they aren't selling it at that price, they can either stop selling ammo or go out of business. You can always buy your ammo at Wal-Mart!

 

[bullet44]

The truth is most don't buy, if you notice
most gun shops dont stay in business,
average here is about 5 years. I cannot and
won't buy from them, however i would like
to if prices were reaonable.

 

[retiredsgt]

Local Gun shop

Ah, there's the Rub. If you need something, and the local gun shop is too high, do you wait for a gun show and hope that it is there, or pay the extra freight and get it at the local shop? A "local" gun shop is nice, and for me, "Local" means about 50 miles. Of course, gun shops seem to breed "experts" who have a tendency to really turn off people.
I don't know what the final answer is, but it is probably out there.

 

[CDPshooter]

One local store here has been around for at least 15 years that I know of. Most items are very reasonably priced. In fact, back when i had my FFL, I rarely used it because I could get most firearms cheaper from them at retail than I could buy wholesale. They sell alot of guns!!

On the downside, if you go in looking for 5 different items, probably 3 will be out of stock.

 

[Mikul]

Ammo prices at my local gun shops are insane. Their cheapest 9mm ammo is $9.50/box of 50 and it's reloaded. Winchester 231 powder is $19. Winchester Small Pistol primers: $20. These prices are each $5 higher than at a gun show.

There are good prices on guns and magazines at the local shops, so I go to them for those items.

 

[Tall Man]

Brick and mortar vs. 8 foot tables

There's a critical difference here. It's something that is rarely mentioned.

When making purchases at gun shows and/or talking on the phone with someone like Ammo Man, I make it a point to politely inquire about their purchasing habits. That is to say, I want to know to what degree do they purchase their goods in bulk. 'Case lots' starts to sound pretty insignificant when some vendors start talking about multiple trailer deliveries of ammunition. This is true for most on-line ammunition sellers, as well as the larger and well-stocked dealers that one sees at weekend shows.

Armed with this data, so to speak, I make the same query at several local establishments. While some fellows do in fact purchase several cases of ammunition, they invariably do not have the inventory (and thus, the price advantage) that on-line dealers and your more dedicated show hounds possess.

Hang on, Tall Man, you may be thinking. Your on-line sources and the dedicated gun show dealers obviously specialize in a single product - ammunition. Of course they will have a better price on a given class of commodity.

Yes.

Here, specialization pays off. Anecdotal or otherwise, there is clear evidence to illustrate that purchasing ammuntion on-line or at a gun show gives the consumer the greatest return on their shooting dollar. Even the AVERAGE variance between gun shop and gun show pricing demands your attention, if not your action. This has been my consistent experience, and I would respectfully state that I'm not alone in my observations.

I've not included Wal-Mart's well-known competitive pricing here, since I'm arguing from the point of breadth as well as depth in brand and caliber selection. Man cannot live on White Box alone.

Tall Man

 

[Bogie]

Heh - I know one benchrest 'smith who has been known to call a surplus powder dealer, and ask "Okay - how much of XXXX do you have? That much, huh? I'll take it. No. I'll take it ALL."

 

[C.R.Sam]

Quantity counts.
Buy more and it costs less.
Sell more and you can make good numbers with less markup.

Problem in that price break quantities too large for many small stores.

You want primers at around 4-5 bucks/thousand.....buy several million of each size. Then figure out how to get rid of them before you lose the house.

Sam

 

[K80Geoff]

There is one local shop here in my area that does give low gun show prices.

He is located on one of those industrial parks, the ones where a number of businesses have a garage/ office in one building. Rents are lower than in the normal strip malls.

Place isn't fancy and it you don't know where it is you will never find it, only a small sign in the window. Sells at a small markup over his price and gets ammo delivered by the trailer load. Owner is retired on a pension so he doesn't have to earn a living. Saves money on many things regular retail shops must buy, like lighting and heat, phone bills and advertising etc. He does gun shows on weekends and opens his shop on weekdays.

But like most gun dealers he has the personality of a junkyard dog.

 

[George Hill]

Gunshows are all that great?
Sometimes.
But if your waiting for a gunshow before you drop your visa wanting to save 5 bucks... remember that the gun show costs 7 bucks to get into.

Support your local shops when and where you can... if they are worthy.

Gunshops here in Utah are plentiful. The only problem is that 90% of them suck. There are only a few that are worthy. Another problem, they each shoot themselves in the foot in one way or another. I've not been in one yet that is the perfect example of what a gunshop should be.

If I find one I'll let you know.

 

[Coronach]

Ah, my favorite gripe.

I had an interesting conversation with a counter guy at a local shop *cough*NewAlbanyShootingRange*cough* about his prices for transfers. Their price is currently $50 per gun. I inquired why it is so high, when other local shops are charging-

he cut me off and shook his head sadly. "Its the internet."

Me: "The internet?"

Him: "Yes! the prices people can get online are just disgusting."

Me, with raised eyebrows: "Huh?"

Him: "So people have got to realize that if they get a good deal online, they are gonna pay for it at this end. I mean, we're gonna be raising our rates soon just to compete."

Me, boggling with the economic contradictions of this: "To what?"

Him: "We're gonna go to $150 per transfer. They might get a good deal online, but they're gonna pay for it here!"

Me: "yeah, or they're gonna go to Powell and get it for $20."

I mean, come on. I know that gunshops have an overhead that gunshow and internet dealers don't. And I also understand the value of having a locally-owned mom-and-pop type store. This is why I sometimes order stuff through one semi-local store (certainly not this one!). They get their cut, and I still get a good price. But capitalism says that you damned well better be offering something that e-tailers and gunsows don't if you are gonna charge more. Just whining about it is not a bright idea, and jacking up your prices to cope with the threat ain't all that brilliant, either.

Mike

 

[StarfuryZeta]

I used to deal with a small FFL for transfers. Pleasant chap. I'd do other business there as well. However, because he was small, he didn't stay in business that long. Almost all of the other dedicated gun shops in town refuse to do transfers. There reasoning is that if you want the item bad enough, we'll order it for you and you can buy it from us. I'd support that 100%, if their prices usually weren't about $100+ over online prices. Ammo? Forget about it. If Wal-mart doesn't have it, ctd or ammoman will. Of course, now with a C&R license, I can collect what I personally want directly.

 

[Tommytrauma]

Shops around here are rude...

I was looking into picking up a kel-tec sub-2000, and called my local shop, a place I've bought several guns through. He said he had one in stock, and quoted a price of $485. When I told him I could get it online for $260 plus a $10 shipping and $25 transfer fee, he called me a "f**king liar rip off artist". Can't imagine someone who makes such statements to customers staying in business. Needless to say, he'll get no more of mine.

 

[Ledbetter]

Observations

I buy most firearms (especially new) from a local shop. When I buy something used off the internet, Jerry charges me $20. I don't know what he charges others.

The most frustrating thing for me was asking for a bulk discount on ammo. I told the same store owner I coud get it way cheaper ordering in bulk and would just as soon order from him as pay shipping if he could meet the price. NO WAY.

So, I order ammo, mags and unusual items off the 'net and buy my guns and cleaning supplies local.

Regards.

 

[johnbt]

Low prices are good, but sometimes I've just got to go see it and have it now. But I'm not married with a house payment anymore, either.

And gun shows are crowded, too, and smell like somebody's cooking sugary, buttered popcorn and cinnamon rolls - oh they are Gun shows used to smell like gun oil, now they smell like the midway at a cheap carnival.

One local store has been open since 1947. They stock guns, fishing stuff(and bait!), bow hunting stuff, some safes and some clothes. They have 44,000 sq. ft. of retail space and 30,000 more in the warehouse.

And they're open early, 7 days a week.

John

 

[gryphon]

Coronach, I agree. NASR will loose tons of FFL transfer business if they jack up their prices. I was up at the place in Powell the other day and got a copy of the their FFL, thinking about a Makarov and possibly an AK, all cheap to get online.

Although, the Buckeye Outdoors shop at Buckeye Lake and SR37 have good deals from time to time and occassionally have their prices lower than the gun shows.

A good store is hard to find, when we do find one, we need to support it. The masses however will go to where ever the best deal is, and can you blame them?

 

[OF]

There's more involved with business than just price, and there's plenty a local retailer can do to compete with the internet. If you can't compete on price, you have to do something else. Be knowedgable, be helpful, have things in stock, etc. There's plenty of things a local shop can offer that the internet cannot. The problem is, most of the local gun shops don't offer anything. They're rude, ignorant and unhelpful. Not all of them, of course, but the majority in my experience.

I work at a small-town computer shop. We can't even hope to sell at the prices people can get parts and things online. Our wholesale prices are often higher than cheap online retailers.

But what we can do is be polite, helpful, knowedgable, and here. We can sell 'loss-leaders': small things that everybody needs that they often go online for: like inkjet printer cartridges. We sell those things pretty much at cost. People know it and appreciate it, it keeps them in the store and then they think of us for other things as well - like service, where we can make a dollar.

The internet isn't killing these businesses, they're killing themselves because they refuse (or fail) to adapt to the new market. Adapt or die.

Another thing: TFL represents the hardest market for a small shop to cater to. TFL'ers know what they want, they don't need help, they don't need advice or hand-holding. It makes alot of what a small shop can provide irrelevant. I have the same problem with computer-tweakers. They don't need me to explain what's available, they already know. They don't want service because they do their own work. It's hard to be there for these people because price is what they're after.

But they're not the only customers on the planet.

- Gabe

 

[Kharn]

Yes.
First off: high prices: 42mm BSA Red Dot: Dealer price from Midway: $~35, his price: $80 plus tax (Note: I'm not saying he should charge $40, $50-60 would be much more reasonable).

Second: He wont touch "assault rifles", only handguns and "normal" long guns. If I want a "normal" long gun, I go to Walmart because they're nice to me (I know the sporting goods guru at the local Walmart, and this FFL isnt too friendly). When he refuses to touch AKs, FALs and AR15s (and all other military style weapons) I have to wonder how he survives in competition with Walmart.

Kharn

 

[slick slidestop]

There are 3 Gunshops within 40 miles of me that I do business with:

1. Mom and pop store----has the BEST prices on firearms I have seen within my driving area. He makes his money off of his re-loads (huge operation) and makes almost no profit (20-50 dollars on some guns)

2. Another Mom and Pop store....a little higher than #1 store on firearms but has a pretty good smith on hand.

3. Private good size Cop Shop also open to public---too expensive on guns.....has good selection of defensive ammo. Not the cheapest, but sometimes you have to shop there because he stocks everything.

They get my business in the order I have them listed. I would rather spend a little more at the small shop who knows my name and be treated well than to shop at a large retail store or gun show where you are usually disrespected .