Does speed matter?

[sks]

Most of my shotgun hunting over the past 30 years has been with squirrels and rabbits. Recently though we have done some quail and duck hunting. In researching for the "killer" shotgun load out there that is guaranteed to do the job better than anything else I have noticed that many manufacturers list the fps of their particular load.

So my question is; how much of a difference is there between 1550 fps steel shot and 1600+fps steel shot? I realize there is an actual speed difference but in a real world environment of hunting does this matter? Does that make a difference to the casual shooter or is more for the experienced hunter?

Thanks in advance

 

[oneounceload]

No difference at all - that is an average approximation-use a chronograph if you really need to know. I'll assume the steel is for the ducks, for quail, a nice standard 1200 fps target load frm Winchester or Remington in 7-1/2 will kill any quail out there (and most other upland birds)

 

[mete]

For a rifle or handgun the word magnum means higher velocity.

For a shotgun magnum means heavier shot load.Higher velocity desn't mean much because round shot has poor ballistic coefficient .But larger shot will carry better for longer range.

 

[sks]

Oneounceload: So you're saying that I don't need to spend the extra money to get the super duper extra fast steel shot for ducks? I don't need to go the chronograph route. What I have "heard" from hunters is the faster speeds get to the bird quicker resulting in more kills. Which I guess technically is true but in the real world of hunting didn't know if it made a difference.

About 30 years ago I worked at a golf course and we had guys come in all the time wanting the newest clubs and balls because the pros were hitting them so well. In reality, until you reach a certain level in golf, the clubs don't make a difference. A pro can take a junky club and do things with it that a novice can't do with a new club.

Thus my thinking was any extra speed really wouldn't make much of a difference in my shooting ability.

 

[jmr40]

For a rifle or handgun the word magnum means higher velocity.

For a shotgun magnum means heavier shot load.Higher velocity desn't mean much because round shot has poor ballistic coefficient .But larger shot will carry better for longer range.

The trend I'm seeing is for ammo makers to back off a bit on the amount of shot in newer shells and up the velocity. Especially in loads designed for turkey and waterfowl. It is my understanding that this is supposed to make for better patterns. I can't say if that is really helpful or not.

 

[AllenJ]

+1 for Oneounceload's response. I shoot 2.75" 1350fps loads while most of my friends like the 1550fps 3" stuff, and I don't see any difference in the field.

 

[Doyle]

What I have "heard" from hunters is the faster speeds get to the bird quicker resulting in more kills.

I wouldn't say getting to the bird quicker is what results in more kills. I think it has more to do with more energy resulting in deeper penetration.

 

[Poodleshooter]

I think it matters for steel shot when pass shooting, but I don't think 50fps matters that much.
I did note a big performance difference in 12ga 3" BB loads at 1300fps (my first steel loads), vs Faststeel at 1550fps, on resident Canadas. That's 250fps though.
The slower loads let a cripple get away the last time I used them, which didn't please me. I've never had a cripple with the fast steel.
If you're hunting inside of 30yds with decoys, or jump shooting ducks, even steel velocity might not matter as much.

 

[LSnSC]

You ABSOLUTELY need the faster loads to for cleaner kills on ducks. Doves and quail are easy to kill in comparison. I've shot 3 inch 1.25 oz 1400 FPS #3 steel for everything from little Bluewings to big Scoters. Im pretty good at picking my shots and pointing a shotgun and rarely have cripples. You need the extra speed to compensate for less density which results in less retained energy which equals less penetration. When steel first came out we though we needed higher pellet count in the heavier loads at less velocity. We were 100% wrong. Lighter loads at more velocity resulted in cleaner kills. Im not sure thet the learning curve for steel didnt result in more cripples and losses than lead poisoning ever did.
I havent shot any of the hyper velocity loads, because I havent needed to. What Im shooting works just fine.

 

[dahermit]

Shot size (in my opinion based on experience), is more important. I have knocked down several pheasants, that hot-footed out of the country. Superficial wounds will knock them down, but heaver (bigger), shot penetrates better to kill them. It is similar with ducks, although most ducks can be recovered on water, teal will seem to disappear (will dive and hold on to underwater objects to escape detection), if you break a wing and do not kill them. You have to penetrate the body...Sevens and a half will not do it. However, you must have enough shot in them to do the job. And, the kicker is, the bigger the shot, the less of it there is.

 

[oneounceload]

What I was saying is that 50 fps is nothing -you can have that much variance within one box, especially if you use really cheap or promo-type loads.

Steel needs more speed than lead because it doesn't have the mass and will slow down faster than lead. With that speed ,remember, comes increased recoil - and at speeds in the 1600 range, it can get to be substantial.

Upland birds with lead are easily taken with normal loads

Hope that clears up any confusion

 

[sks]

Thanks for all of the posts and information.

As has been stated here, the steel just doesn't have the distance / reach of lead. This I learned first hand last year while duck hunting in Tennessee.

The load I was shooting was a Winchester Xpert, Hi Velocity #2, 1-3/8 oz, 3.5" shell at 1550 fps. After two days it was punishing. I'll try some different 2-3/4" and 3" shells this year and see how those work.

Doyle: My understanding of the faster shot = more kills thinking is basicallly there is less chance of missing. I do agree with you that deeper penetration should logically result in more kills.

 

[oneounceload]

The load I was shooting was a Winchester Xpert, Hi Velocity #2, 1-3/8 oz, 3.5" shell at 1550 fps.

Using this calculator:

http://www.10xshooters.com/calculators/Shotgun_Recoil_Calculator.htm, and assuming an 8# gun, that load generates over 45 ft.lb of recoil

By comparison with a target load that generates 12 ft.lb, your hunting load is a,most 4X the recoil

That's the same as shooting a .30 caliber 180 gr bullet at 3400 fps from a gun of equal weight..........

Recoil hurts, both short and long term

 

[LSnSC]

There isnt enough difference in lead between 1300-1500 fps loads to worry about, and if you are, you will miss.
Focus on the target, never allow the barrel to get behind the bird, and when it feels right SHOOT.

 

[sks]

Now I have an excuse

Oneounceload: Now I have an excuse for by bruised shoulder and wimpy complaining. Thanks for giving me an out! I am not big at all, 5'9" 160 lbs, and can handle recoil but it just gets to be uncomfortable to the point I don't enjoy pulling the trigger.


LSnSC: I have an old single shot Stevens that I have hunted squirrel and rabbit with for many years. To be honest I don't really shoot it right as far as mounting it and getting a correct sight plane but I've shot it for so long that I simply know where to shoot and when to pull the trigger. I take it to the skeet range from time to time just for fun.

 

[oneounceload]

SKS - I am almost 6'3 and let's say way north of 200#, and I shoot 7/8 oz reloads for targets. I might shoot 200-300 per day, but even that takes a toll on you, especially over the long term. I am starting to get the shoulder issues that come with age and repeated thumping from shooting

Recoil is not fun or macho - it is damaging and painful

 

[LSnSC]

Thats the way a shotgun ought to be. When its right its almost Zen like. The shot just seems to happen.
FWIW, IMO, you're taking an unneccesary beating. I hunt ducks as hard as anyone Ive ever met, for 30+ yearsand Ive never shot any that required a 3.5 inch shell. If Im hunting big water, Im shooting a twelve gauge auto or pump with 3" #3's at 1400fps with an IC or modified choke. On small water Im shooting a 20 with 1 oz of #3's at 1400 fps with an IC. Ive lost very few ducks with those loads. They kill well and dont beat you up.