Documentary: "Ruby Ridge - Anatomy of a Tragedy"

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SpyGuy

New member
Watched this on The Learning Channel last night at 0200 (2:00am for you civvie types). According to TLC's Web site, it also aired on 28 May at 1900 (7:00pm).

Has anyone else watched this documentary? I thought it was a very fair and honest report of the events that occured. It didn't strongly portray Weaver as either a hero or a villain, but it really hit hard on the government's actions.

There were a number of interviews with the participants: Randy Weaver, his daughter (very sad and touching at one point as she remembers her last memory of her slain brother), Bo Gritz, and a number of FBI agents. One of the most telling moments is when one of the head FBI agents recounts the moment the government agents discovered that Sam Weaver (Randy's son) was dead: he visibly got all choked up and fought back tears as he put himself in the Weaver's shoes and realized that the same thing could very well happen to his family.

My only complaint was that the documentary was cut short: it seemed like the producers either ran out of money or allotted time. The show ended rather abruptly after the standoff portion was over. They did a quick summary of the aftermath, but not much mention of the cases brought against the government agents or the investigations that criticized the goverment agencies involved (other than to say that the government settled a lawsuit with Weaver to the tune of $3M).

However, they did conclude with an ominous reference to the Wacco firebombing.
 
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SA Scott

New member
I saw most of it also, and thought it was reasonably balanced. I think, at root, the theme was still Randy Weaver as a wacko white supremacist religious nut sawing off shotguns. That being said, the escalation and communications failures by Federal agents was also documented. I wasn't aware of some of the coincidences which provoked the final standoff (Judge telling Weaver he would forfeit his property for bond, etc.). The piece indicated that both sides made errors in judgment, and the results were indeed tragic.

SA Scott
 
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nemesis

New member
Mr. Scott,

I believe it would be valuable to study the factual evidence on this incident. Weaver wasn't a supremacist, he was a separatist who accepted other races but felt that people were better off with their own kind. That point is debatable but he wasn't a supremacist nazi and it has been shown that his presence at a couple of the Aryan Nation functions was as much out of curiosity as anything.

You should be aware that it has been established that he sawed off shotguns for the paid government informant only after being cajoled on numerous occasions over a prolonged period of time.

It is worth noting that the legal documents which he received to set his court appointment were precisely 1 month later than the documents filed in the court. Even if he arrived on time according to the documents presented to him, he would be one month late.

There is no good reason in the world that a trained tactical team of Marshalls should react to fire from a juvenile with a hail of bullets and then lay crying on the hillside for 12 hours because they were "pinned down".

The FBI violated the Constitution of this nation when they issued the order to shoot to kill any adult seen with a weapon.

Lon Horiuchi violated the law of the land, every rule of weapons use and common sense when he fired at an indistinct, unidentfied target and killed Vicki Weaver. And he walked away a free man.

The men responsible for all of this were promoted and able to practise all of their hard earned knowledge at Waco. I don't care if Koresh and his people were wackos or space aliens. The simple fact of the matter is that trusted Federal agencies were allowed to operate quite outside the law with impunity.

It is imperative that those charged with upholding the law, obey the law.

"When federal officers violate the Constitution, either through malice or excessive zeal, they can be held accountable for violating the state's criminal laws . . . . A group of FBI agents formulated rules of engagement that permitted their colleagues to hide in the bushes and gun down men who posed no immediate threat. Such wartime rules are patently unconstitutional for a police action." Judge Alex Kozinski writing in the majority opinion for the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

"You've got a right not to be shot for nothing, you know . . . . If there are no restraints on law enforcement, then rather than the rule of law we have the rule of the gun . . . . The police can shoot you, period. That's it." Former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, who had argued the appeal on behalf of Boundary County
 
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KSFreeman

New member
Ruby Ridge was not a tragedy. That implies some sort of accident.

Government agents shooting a child in the back and a mother in the head was an atrocity. Government is based on violence. Pay your taxes or we kill your family like Weaver's.
 
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BigG

New member
Ruby Ridge was an atrocity, tax payer funded and brought to you by your federal government under the leadership of Attorney General Janet Reno and President Bill Clinton.
 
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SA Scott

New member
nemesis:

It would also have been appropriate to note the context of my post. The intent of my statement was to address the apparent opinions of the producers in demonstrating bias against Weaver, hence the "theme" generated by the program. It did not reflect my factiual or opinionated understanding of the events. I think I am adequately aware of the facts. My point was to argue that the producers of the program, in spite of their awareness of the facts, chose to create an image of Randy Weaver as a wrongdoer who deserved punishment. Why? Probably because they genuinely believed him to be wrong (as the blissninny liberals we criticize here often), or in order to minimize the actions of the Federal agents involved from wilful malfeasance or cruelty to incompetence and miscommunication.

Again, this is my opinion as to what the producers of the documentary meant to portray to an otherwise ignorant audience, not my personal view on Ruby Ridge. I apologize if originally I wasn't sufficiently clear. My opinion is that the government's actions were excessive, and that specific individuals engaged (Rogers/Horiuchi et al.) in behavior both illegal and disgraceful to law enforcement. I will not, however, tar everyone who was there with the same brush, because I wasn't there.

SA Scott
 
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Waitone

New member
Pretty decent job as far as it went.

Some items were reported as a statement of fact then left alone. Voice over said Ms. Weaver was shot in the head because the sniper didn't clearly see the target. No followup on that whopper.

I would prefer to have time spent understanding why events spun out of control. Why were the rules of engagement changed to wartime rules? Who wrote them and who approved them? Why is it no one apparently objected to them? Later in the piece I learned HRT objected and refused to employ them as written. What happened to the relevant parties. For Example, some of the same cast of characters made a repeat performance at Waco. Was anyone promoted?

I would also want to know why there was so much confusion from the legal aspects of the case. Why was Weaver set up as target to break federal gun laws? Why did the bATF think it necessary to run a gotcha on Weaver? Who else where they targeting? The list goes on.

Pretty decent reporting from the electronic media about guns. WOW!!!
 
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Zander

Moderator
No followup on that whopper.
Click to expand...
Vicki Weaver was ID'd as the leader of her family by FBI profilers. As such, she was target #1 and was subsequently murdered, intentionally. by Lon Horiuchi.

Ref: John Magaw [who is currently insisting that airline pilots don't need to carry sidearms]; he was so pleased with the outcome at Ruby Ridge that he recommended promotions and awards for the perpetrators.
 
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Skorzeny

New member
I don't care if Koresh and his people were wackos or space aliens.
Click to expand...
When they came for the Gypsies, I said nothing, because I wasn't a Gypsie... and when they came for me...

Skorzeny
 
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gorlitsa

New member
The documentary was very well done in the time they had. They did make it clear that Weaver broke exactly two laws, and even then he had to be egged on by the government. They didn't spend much time on the publicity angle, unfortunatly. But I suppose the press can't rat on itself... :rolleyes:
 
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