Perhaps already mentioned elsewhere but a few minutes ago I heard on a public radio broadcast mention of a large "document dump" by the Obama Administration, the documents involved being related to the Fast and Furious debacle, documents first sought by the U.S. Senate 4 years ago. This document release having arisen out of the federal courts rejection, roughly a year ago, of Executive Privilege claimed by the president. One wonders what possibly interesting tales these previously withheld documents will tell.
document dump mentioned on Public Radio today
- Thread starter alan
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kilimanjaro
New member
Fridays seem to be the standard for releasing data and documents when you don't want a week of news coverage.
Just my opinion, but I've always felt potentially incriminating or embarrassing documents that are voluntarily released by any administration are either incomplete, altered, or still in hiding. Court orders for such things should come with immediate seizure.
Just my opinion, but I've always felt potentially incriminating or embarrassing documents that are voluntarily released by any administration are either incomplete, altered, or still in hiding. Court orders for such things should come with immediate seizure.
Unfortunately it was an abbreviated list as the latest judge trimmed it down. There may be something in there but it's unlikely the smoking gun documents are, as the ones released were all after the fact to commit to the exercise.
It may take another twenty years now -
As for the dump it was ironic that a cartoon in the funnies used that as a theme. They didn't know about the F&F, just that Fridays were the day. Same as the ATF publishing the Open Letter, which was also travel day to SHOT last year. Hmm? Yep, they deliberately choose to do it when the news cycle is taking the weekend off and phones ring in empty offices.
Who said their Administration was going to open and transparent? Really? Never happens.
As far as to who made the decision and how far up, it will either be an operative who is jammed up and has to blame somebody further up the chain to get off the hook, or the secretarial assistant writing a tell all book to make sales. THAT NEVER HAPPENS WHEN THE PRINCIPAL PLAYERS ARE IN OFFICE. Usually years later when the newscycle will only spin the story one day.
Unfortunately the legacy of the this Administration will be Fast & Furious, the VA scandals, Benghazi, ISIS, the Ukraine, and the killing of a Malheur protester who was kneeling in the snow - per FBI video - by another agent who had his coworkers downrange of his fire.
That's Professional Grade work right there.
It may take another twenty years now -
As for the dump it was ironic that a cartoon in the funnies used that as a theme. They didn't know about the F&F, just that Fridays were the day. Same as the ATF publishing the Open Letter, which was also travel day to SHOT last year. Hmm? Yep, they deliberately choose to do it when the news cycle is taking the weekend off and phones ring in empty offices.
Who said their Administration was going to open and transparent? Really? Never happens.
As far as to who made the decision and how far up, it will either be an operative who is jammed up and has to blame somebody further up the chain to get off the hook, or the secretarial assistant writing a tell all book to make sales. THAT NEVER HAPPENS WHEN THE PRINCIPAL PLAYERS ARE IN OFFICE. Usually years later when the newscycle will only spin the story one day.
Unfortunately the legacy of the this Administration will be Fast & Furious, the VA scandals, Benghazi, ISIS, the Ukraine, and the killing of a Malheur protester who was kneeling in the snow - per FBI video - by another agent who had his coworkers downrange of his fire.
That's Professional Grade work right there.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
My guess is shortly after the election ends, additional documents will be released. Some of those involved and near retirement from public service will accept some responsibility, receive pardons from the next administration, and fade away into well paid private consulting jobs with little public exposure.
Destroying documents in the digital age isn't as easy as it used to be.
berettaprofessor
New member
Uh...yeah it is, if you're smart about it. It's called overwriting.
I have said this in other venues before, and will repeat it here.Regarding the Original Fast and Furious debacle, there should long since have been CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS of the individuals, ATF Management, whose wet dream this fiasco was. Additionally, there should have long since been CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS of people at Dept.of Justice who have played an all to obvious role in stonewalling investigations, such as there were of this criminal fiasco, and the ongoing cover-ups. The fact that NONE of the above have taken place, nor are any likely to take place, I hope I'm wrong here, is a giant ZITZ on the fact of this country,one that the country can ill afford,one which it never should have had. By the way, it is one that we can thank one or two people for, they being former U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder,and sitting president Barack Obama.
Despite all the hoopla, Issa never proved that Eric Holder or President Obama approved of Operation Fast and Furious: That is what the court case is about.
Operation Fast and Furious was was dreamed up and implemented by the same BATFE bureaucrats who brought you Operation Wide Receiver on the watch of Bush II.
Over 500 guns were trafficked into Mexico Under Operation Wide Receiver . Contrary to info put out by partisan political hacks those guns were not tracked. Operation Wide Receiver was terminated by the headquarters of the BATFE.
Yet somehow the president declared executive privilege over a large portion of the deal once the ball got rolling, and this is literally the first bit of progress made in the investigation since then (compare vs. the Benghazi/server investigation progress over the same timeframe). Totally unrelated to congress' inability to link any key players to these events, I'm sure.
"Operation Fast and Furious was was dreamed up and implemented by the same BATFE bureaucrats who brought you Operation Wide Receiver on the watch of Bush II."
I really don't care who came up with the scheme (though they should be punished too) but the president himself assured us he had some sort of interest or knowledge in the affair, hence the exercise of his privilege obscuring comms between likely critical players (imagine if Hillary had been able to censor all emails between herself and Blumenthal/Abedin? We wouldn't know hardly anything about all the classified info being passed around uncontrolled). So what if Issa grandstanded; he's a politician who was tossed some red meat and a camera lens. Whatever. Doesn't change the fact that the seriously flawed/criminal conduct of Wide Receiver was not only not ended emphatically, but was expanded to levels we probably still aren't aware of (assuming it ever actually ended & didn't just start moving guns to cartels directly or via Mexican army aid)
Neither Bush nor Holder are in power any more to abuse us, so there's less pressure to go after them (which is a big reason this has languished). But from what I understand, all the agents involved, their leadership, all the way up to Holder and probably higher, went unpunished or were actually promoted for their conduct. They go on to continue abuse of their authority to this day. And even Holder didn't resign under pressure, let alone in disgrace.
We hear a lot about Brian Terry, but there's also hundreds of Mexicans whose murders the ATF directly facilitated, and thousands (if not tens of thousands) more who today live in terror because of the Bureau's past (and/or present) actions to funnel arms into the hands of our supposed enemies.
TCB
"Operation Fast and Furious was was dreamed up and implemented by the same BATFE bureaucrats who brought you Operation Wide Receiver on the watch of Bush II."
I really don't care who came up with the scheme (though they should be punished too) but the president himself assured us he had some sort of interest or knowledge in the affair, hence the exercise of his privilege obscuring comms between likely critical players (imagine if Hillary had been able to censor all emails between herself and Blumenthal/Abedin? We wouldn't know hardly anything about all the classified info being passed around uncontrolled). So what if Issa grandstanded; he's a politician who was tossed some red meat and a camera lens. Whatever. Doesn't change the fact that the seriously flawed/criminal conduct of Wide Receiver was not only not ended emphatically, but was expanded to levels we probably still aren't aware of (assuming it ever actually ended & didn't just start moving guns to cartels directly or via Mexican army aid)
Neither Bush nor Holder are in power any more to abuse us, so there's less pressure to go after them (which is a big reason this has languished). But from what I understand, all the agents involved, their leadership, all the way up to Holder and probably higher, went unpunished or were actually promoted for their conduct. They go on to continue abuse of their authority to this day. And even Holder didn't resign under pressure, let alone in disgrace.
We hear a lot about Brian Terry, but there's also hundreds of Mexicans whose murders the ATF directly facilitated, and thousands (if not tens of thousands) more who today live in terror because of the Bureau's past (and/or present) actions to funnel arms into the hands of our supposed enemies.
TCB
Concerning Fast and Furious, and Operation Wide Receiver, for whatever little it might be worth, I wonder as to the following. Where do these ringing titles come from and who in blazes dreamedcriminal them up?
Otherwise, might I point out that re F &F as well as Wide Receiver, about which one hears little if anything, am I missing something here, none of those who dreamed up and or operated these criminal fiascos have been punished for their transgressions, for their violations of the law. Likewise, re numerous economic/financial debacles, virtually none of those responsible have been punished for their criminality, for their misdeeds. None are likely to be punished either, which is why we will continue to see the abuses for which the ATF is known worldwide. ditto for the financial hi-jinks that belabor the honest, law abiding citizen to this day.
Otherwise, might I point out that re F &F as well as Wide Receiver, about which one hears little if anything, am I missing something here, none of those who dreamed up and or operated these criminal fiascos have been punished for their transgressions, for their violations of the law. Likewise, re numerous economic/financial debacles, virtually none of those responsible have been punished for their criminality, for their misdeeds. None are likely to be punished either, which is why we will continue to see the abuses for which the ATF is known worldwide. ditto for the financial hi-jinks that belabor the honest, law abiding citizen to this day.
Our current open and transparent administration has fully investigated and determined that the whole Fast and Furious operation was planned and implemented by two "rogue agents" in the Phoenix office. Nothing to see here, move along.......Criminal prosecutions are too much to hope for, but what is so infuriating is that nobody ever even gets fired or loses their pension. Whether criminal or just grossly incompetent, the action of people in government cost the life of a border patrol agent, and over 300 Mexicans, and those people are either still on the payroll, or receiving a government pension. In the private sector, "ignorance at the top" is not a defense, but an indication of incompetence. This is the most corrupt Dept. of Justice in my lifetime.
rock185
Definitely, it is obviously the fault of a couple of GS 10's or thereabouts, combined, as I see it, with the best efforts of the Director of the ATF, The U.S. Attorney General and The President.
Of course,I readily recognize and admit that the dim view of government that I hold is at least in part due to the small amount of Russian blood that flows through my veins. I note, in passing, that Russians are fine people,their major problem being a tendency to look at the dark side of all things. By the way, should a "dark side" not present itself, Russians tend to hike down the street, to the nearest hardware shop, where they buy black paint.
Definitely, it is obviously the fault of a couple of GS 10's or thereabouts, combined, as I see it, with the best efforts of the Director of the ATF, The U.S. Attorney General and The President.
Of course,I readily recognize and admit that the dim view of government that I hold is at least in part due to the small amount of Russian blood that flows through my veins. I note, in passing, that Russians are fine people,their major problem being a tendency to look at the dark side of all things. By the way, should a "dark side" not present itself, Russians tend to hike down the street, to the nearest hardware shop, where they buy black paint.
barnbwt:
Those who are "favored", always manage to skate free, don't they, possibly to the cost and detriment of the citizenry, about which none of the above mentioned care a wit. As the title of the book read, And The Band Played On. The book, by the way, discussed other matters, however I submit that the connections are there, to be seen by most anyone who troubles to look. Oh yes, I could be accused of being bitter, that being besides the point.
Those who are "favored", always manage to skate free, don't they, possibly to the cost and detriment of the citizenry, about which none of the above mentioned care a wit. As the title of the book read, And The Band Played On. The book, by the way, discussed other matters, however I submit that the connections are there, to be seen by most anyone who troubles to look. Oh yes, I could be accused of being bitter, that being besides the point.
1. William Newell, the agent in charge of Fast and Furious was reduced in grade from SES (GS-15 or above) to GS-13.
2. Lead agent, Hope Macallister got a letter of reprimand.
3. David Voth, the Phoenix group supervisor, was demoted.
IMO: The failure of both Issa and Grassley to call for reform of the BATFE speaks loudly that their "investigation" of Fast and Furious was no more than political trash.
No one will ever be prosecuted for operations Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious.