Do you shoot your WW2 Walther p38?
- Thread starter Z400ACDC
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WWII Walther P38
YES, the slides have a tendency to crack near the locking lug if you use them often, also the recoil springs need replacement regularly because of the battering on the area around the locking lugs of the slide, many people have told me this was one of the weak points of the Walther P38 design
WWII era metalurgy isnt as durable as todays modern steels, especially on wartime manufactured pieces
my WWII P38 looked brand new and had all matching parts and it still broke after firing 2,000 rds through it, the slide cracked all the way through on one side
these are more for collecting and historical value, you could buy a post war West German model as a shooter
your Walther is an old warhorse and should be retired
YES, the slides have a tendency to crack near the locking lug if you use them often, also the recoil springs need replacement regularly because of the battering on the area around the locking lugs of the slide, many people have told me this was one of the weak points of the Walther P38 design
WWII era metalurgy isnt as durable as todays modern steels, especially on wartime manufactured pieces
my WWII P38 looked brand new and had all matching parts and it still broke after firing 2,000 rds through it, the slide cracked all the way through on one side
these are more for collecting and historical value, you could buy a post war West German model as a shooter
your Walther is an old warhorse and should be retired
robhof
I have a cousin that has a WW2 bring back that he got during the Battle of the Bulge, he occasionally shoots it. Towards the end of the war, they were using railroad tracks for making the P38. One of my uncles actually scouted through one of the factories and saw piles of approximately 3' pieces of track by one of the machining lines.
I have a cousin that has a WW2 bring back that he got during the Battle of the Bulge, he occasionally shoots it. Towards the end of the war, they were using railroad tracks for making the P38. One of my uncles actually scouted through one of the factories and saw piles of approximately 3' pieces of track by one of the machining lines.
I have AC 41 Walther P-38 also, with all matching numbers and holster. I have shot one magazine through it and then put it away in the safe.
With that said, I also have a 1962 model P-38 that I shoot and have in a holster clipped to my bed frame.
The AC 41 is one of the more sought after P-38's so I wouldn't put to many rounds through it if I were you.
With that said, I also have a 1962 model P-38 that I shoot and have in a holster clipped to my bed frame.
The AC 41 is one of the more sought after P-38's so I wouldn't put to many rounds through it if I were you.
My understanding is that early war p38s are safe to shoot but it is a 70 year old pistol and I wouldn't push it. I shoot my AC42 some with standard pressure 115gr I've only put about 50 rounds through it and doubt I'll shoot more than a couple hundred more in the future. I have other 9s if I want to beat on something.
I do, once in a while
There is shoot, and there is shoot....
No, the old alloys aren't as "good" as the ones today, but that only matters as a point of comparison. Otherwise, it means squat. 4 point carbon steel then is still 4 point carbon steel today.
And yes, German quality control went down in the final years of the war. Some things were deliberate (less work on the finish), and some things were the result of production pressures, degradation in the quality of the raw materials available, and even sabotage.
I won't disagree with anyone who won't shoot their WWII era guns, because there is no replacing those originals. I do disagree with those who tell me I shouldn't shoot mine, simply because its MY gun, not theirs. And there is shoot, and there is shoot....
I'm no P.38 expert, I didn't even know the gun ejects to the LEFT, until I got one of my very own. SO what is, and isn't a design weakness in their construction, I leave to the experten.
What I can tell you is that guns designed (and built) 70+ years ago were not made with the expectation that they were going to be fired a lot. And by a lot, I mean the way some people shoot today (round count). And the thought that they might be fired with overpressure ammo seldom, if ever crossed the designers minds either, I'm willing to bet.
Original specs for the 9mm Luger were a 124gr FMJ at 1050fps. By WW I they had improved the load to a 115gr bullet at 1150fps. What was the original life expectancy of a P.38? I don't know, but I do know the original GI 1911 was 5,000 rounds service life. It is really rare for a 1911 not to manage that, with correct ammo, but it has happened. Most of them will go well over that, of course.
Broken slide on a wartime P.38 after only 2,000 rounds? Pity. Sounds like you got a bad one. It happens. The trouble with stories like this is usually the only info we hear is the gun type and round count, and what the failure was. All good things to know, BUT, not enough info to draw a really valid conclusion, other than for that individual gun.
A 1945 production P.38 and only 2,000rnds of modern 9mm +P+, and I wouldn't be surprised at a major failure. A gun built before the Germans began losing the war, and 5,000rnds of the proper ammo, I'd be surprised if it suffered a major failure.
I have an AC 42. I shoot it once in a while, a couple boxes of ammo a year, maybe. I fully expect that gun to outlast me, at that rate. If you want something to run hundreds of rounds a month through, month in, month out, get something else.
Might I suggest something in the new lines of combat Tupperware?
There is shoot, and there is shoot....
No, the old alloys aren't as "good" as the ones today, but that only matters as a point of comparison. Otherwise, it means squat. 4 point carbon steel then is still 4 point carbon steel today.
And yes, German quality control went down in the final years of the war. Some things were deliberate (less work on the finish), and some things were the result of production pressures, degradation in the quality of the raw materials available, and even sabotage.
I won't disagree with anyone who won't shoot their WWII era guns, because there is no replacing those originals. I do disagree with those who tell me I shouldn't shoot mine, simply because its MY gun, not theirs. And there is shoot, and there is shoot....
I'm no P.38 expert, I didn't even know the gun ejects to the LEFT, until I got one of my very own. SO what is, and isn't a design weakness in their construction, I leave to the experten.
What I can tell you is that guns designed (and built) 70+ years ago were not made with the expectation that they were going to be fired a lot. And by a lot, I mean the way some people shoot today (round count). And the thought that they might be fired with overpressure ammo seldom, if ever crossed the designers minds either, I'm willing to bet.
Original specs for the 9mm Luger were a 124gr FMJ at 1050fps. By WW I they had improved the load to a 115gr bullet at 1150fps. What was the original life expectancy of a P.38? I don't know, but I do know the original GI 1911 was 5,000 rounds service life. It is really rare for a 1911 not to manage that, with correct ammo, but it has happened. Most of them will go well over that, of course.
Broken slide on a wartime P.38 after only 2,000 rounds? Pity. Sounds like you got a bad one. It happens. The trouble with stories like this is usually the only info we hear is the gun type and round count, and what the failure was. All good things to know, BUT, not enough info to draw a really valid conclusion, other than for that individual gun.
A 1945 production P.38 and only 2,000rnds of modern 9mm +P+, and I wouldn't be surprised at a major failure. A gun built before the Germans began losing the war, and 5,000rnds of the proper ammo, I'd be surprised if it suffered a major failure.
I have an AC 42. I shoot it once in a while, a couple boxes of ammo a year, maybe. I fully expect that gun to outlast me, at that rate. If you want something to run hundreds of rounds a month through, month in, month out, get something else.
Might I suggest something in the new lines of combat Tupperware?
Actually, I have never seen a cracked slide, but I have seen a number of slides where the recoil spring tabs inside the slide are sheared off.
I had the luck to find a reblued WW II steel frame to which I mated (after some judicious fitting) a post war slide.
This solves the problem of cracking alloy frames, and, if the slide cracks, well, replacements are still relatively cheap and plentiful.
There are minor tolerances differences, but they are easy to overcome, and replacing a WW II slide is not impossible as some people state. Once properly fitted, a post war slide functions exactly as an original WW II.
I had the luck to find a reblued WW II steel frame to which I mated (after some judicious fitting) a post war slide.
This solves the problem of cracking alloy frames, and, if the slide cracks, well, replacements are still relatively cheap and plentiful.
There are minor tolerances differences, but they are easy to overcome, and replacing a WW II slide is not impossible as some people state. Once properly fitted, a post war slide functions exactly as an original WW II.
carguychris
New member
Grant D said:
+1. I suggest picking up a postwar hex-pin P1 if you want to SHOOT a P38.44 AMP said:
They're readily available, more easily replaced, and the design is improved in several important areas. Most significantly, the slide is stronger and less likely to crack; the decocker/safety "barrel" is stronger and less likely to fracture on decocking; and the top cover retaining tabs are redesigned, making it less likely that the top cover will spontaneously fly off on firing and take the firing pin and sundry other small parts with it. Thanks guys! I have other pistols for range use. My fatherinlaw had this p38 for over 30 years and it would never feed and he ask me to look at it. I told him it needed a new mag spring. I ordered a new walther mag and now it runs fine. I told him that I had it fixed and he told me to keep it. I just thought I might run a mag through it every now and then. Thanks.
I have read that the slides of WWII M1911A1s did not receive the more thorough heat treating of the commercial ones so extended shooting of them is not recommended. A number of IPSC devotes of the M1911 say they change their springs frequently. I haven't had any problems with my 1943 Walther made P-38, and I have read US made 9MM is somewhat milder than what the Wehrmacht used. Probably the best argument against extended us of a P-38 is that the barrel is not as easily replaced as on a Browning or Browning style design-S&W M639, e.g.
carguychris
New member
AFAIK this is disputed, although it's frequently parroted, usually as an explanation why somebody's Luger won't cycle a full mag properly. ("Well, ya know, compared to what the German military used, this American ammo isn't hot enough / has the wrong shape bullet / has the wrong spec case / is too long / is too short / hasn't had the right magic spells cast upon it by mystical Teutonic gnomes.")SIGSHR said:
How many rounds would one shoot thru the modern Walther P5?
I had a compact version for years and traded it away. After around 1k rounds of various 9mm mostly S&B 115gr FMJ I changed the recoil springs.
I have more faith in a modern plastic fantastic tupperware gun for SD/HD. Plus if I ever did have to put it to that use it wouldn't be a huge loss if it had to sit in an evidence locker for months.
I did shoot the AC42 I had but that is long gone to a collector, too.
I had a compact version for years and traded it away. After around 1k rounds of various 9mm mostly S&B 115gr FMJ I changed the recoil springs.
I have more faith in a modern plastic fantastic tupperware gun for SD/HD. Plus if I ever did have to put it to that use it wouldn't be a huge loss if it had to sit in an evidence locker for months.
I did shoot the AC42 I had but that is long gone to a collector, too.
I don't have a wartime P38, just a couple postwar models that I do shoot (one P38 and one P1). However I do have a 1913 P08 (mixed numbers) that I've shot many thousands of times since I got it in 1975. Over that time just one part broke and fortunately it was an easy fix. I only fired standard FMJ, never +P or other hot loads.
The last few years I've only used Federal Champion since it cycles well and isn't that hot. The Luger rarely got more than 50 rounds per session but there were countless sessions over the years since I love to shoot it and many friends requested that I bring it along.
I've heard the steel is much better in the WWII Mauser P08s but my WWI DWM has been nearly trouble free. This brings up the question, is the P08 a bit stronger than wartime P38s? I've never given it much thought but it sure would be fun to shoot a wartime P38 that doesn't have high collector value. (My all matching numbers 1941 byf P08 is too nice to shoot so my shooter P08 is a whole lot more fun!)
The last few years I've only used Federal Champion since it cycles well and isn't that hot. The Luger rarely got more than 50 rounds per session but there were countless sessions over the years since I love to shoot it and many friends requested that I bring it along.
I've heard the steel is much better in the WWII Mauser P08s but my WWI DWM has been nearly trouble free. This brings up the question, is the P08 a bit stronger than wartime P38s? I've never given it much thought but it sure would be fun to shoot a wartime P38 that doesn't have high collector value. (My all matching numbers 1941 byf P08 is too nice to shoot so my shooter P08 is a whole lot more fun!)
A few years ago, I was given an ac43 P.38 which had subsequently been given to the post-war Bundsheer in Austria. The original owner was shooting it when the entire roof of the chamber blew off. After he gave me the gun, I replaced the destroyed barrel with a new one. As it wasn't technically 100% original, I shot it and promptly lost the extractor when it blew out, a weakness of the P.38. Luckily, that extractor was an easy part to replace, but it could have just as well been something else.
You never know...
You never know...
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Like you I also have a 1913 DWM, which I purchased in 1964, meaning I have owned it for half of its life. LOL!!! It has been one of my perennial favorite shooters over the last 50 years, and, like yours, has had at least 2000 rounds put through it at various shooting outings. Thus far (knock on wood) I have not broken any part in it.
I mentioned this gun in another thread as being one that was purchased from a peg hanging in a grocery store in a small town in north Florida. When I got it, it had no sideplate, so I bought one from some fairly well-known old guy in Michigan who had Luger parts. (Clifford something or other; Some of you old guys with better memories might remember his last name.)
Shot it for years like that. Ironically, about two years ago, a period correct sideplate with correct "last two" appeared on an eBay auction, which I successfully won, and now have an "all matching" Luger which really isn't.
That's a great story, Gyvel! And very fortunate you were able to find a correct numbered side plate. eBay is a good source for gun parts if you keep your eyes open and do frequent searches. In fact, my P08 was a real mutt when I found it cheap in 1975 - it had a DWM frame and toggle train but a 1938 Mauser barreled receiver! (And numbers from 15 guns, amazing it functioned.) It shot fine that way until I discovered eBay around 2005 then found the period correct 1913 DWM barreled receiver. Later I found a correct S/42 toggle for the 1938 upper. I was extremely pleased either upper shoots fine on the DWM frame so I can quickly make it into a true WWI DWM or look much like a WWII Mauser (most people couldn't tell the frame was DWM). I should look harder for a Mauser frame to have two shooters!
Ya gotta love these great old German pistols!
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It does have the shoulder stock lug, as does my 1941 byf. Fortunately no one ground them off before I got them!
Oh... I think I know what you're getting at. It seems that 1913 was the year the lug was added on, somewhere around then. 1912 P08s don't have them, I think. And 1914-1942 do.