Do you aim when you have to shoot fast?

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Andrewh

New member
I went to my first idpa match the last month. I noticed that I never saw my gun when I was shooting. I don't know how to explain it, other than I never looked at my sights, and it was mostly point and shoot for me, even out to the 10-15 yard mark.
Do the rest of you do this, or do you manage to use your sights?
 
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jimpeel

New member
What you describe is "point shooting" which is usually a developed trait. There are books on the subject and probably Internet sites as well. If you already have a natural point ability, avoid those books and websites as they may instil a mental block over your natural ability.

Point shooting is the reason that, when purchasing a firearm, one needs to establish the "natural point" of the firearm. This is done, with a handgun, by taking your normal stance, fixing on a target, closing your eyes, and then bringing the firearm up to where you feel that it is pointed at the target previously established. Then open your eyes.

You should, if the firearm is correct for your "natural point", be looking straight over the top of the backstrap and the sights should be on the target. If the firearm is pointing down, up, right, or left, try the excercise again. This should be done 6-10 times to establish the natural point of the firearm. The best firearm, with the most natural point for me, is a Browning Hi-Power. When I perform the excercise with this firearm, I am looking right over the sights with rare exception.
 
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Waterdog

Moderator
Point shooting is OK for close range 1 to 10 yards, but when shooting longer ranges you need a sight picture.

As a matter of fact, you should work on acquirng a sight picture everytime.

Waterdog
 
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AyeAye

New member
Agree w/ Jim Peel. You are 'Point Shooting'.

There is an excellent article in the 'Handguns 2002 Annual' by Col. Rex Applegate and his experiences during WWII and beyond training individuals in this method of shooting.

At close ranges, if it is instinctive, it is 'Very' accurate.

I'm still working on it for defensive situations. My normal CCW is a Bulgie Makarov but I seem to be better w/ this style w/ my newly acquired CZ70 .32acp.

Perhaps the larger/heavier frame is the difference for me.

Anyway, if it works for you, -- Go w/ it!!!

""As a matter of fact, you should work on acquirng a sight picture everytime""

In 'Defensive Situations' this may be the difference between life and death!!! Exactlly as Col. Applegate describes in his article.

Larry
 
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faraway

New member
Well how 'bout this. About point shooting, any of you have a preference in firearms types? (Aye Aye alluded to this). I've found that can point shoot fairly well with a revolver (Taurus midframe) but can't do so well with the auto's. Either it's becuase having been raised with revolvers or something about the angles on the autos (and i.e a Mak seems to be wonderful except this little difference)
 
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mpthole

New member
Interesting topic! I have never been much of a 'point-shooter' with a handgun, at least not that I known of or tried to... but while taking UR at TR, in The Terminator, my instructor asked if I was actually using the sites or just point shooting because I was engaging the target very quickly and accurately. At the time - with blood pumping in my temples because of the sheer adrenaline rush - I said, "I don't know... I just brought the rifle up and shot the bad guy." By the end of the course I was using the sights more than just 'point-shooting' per say... but I think if its natural, then what the heck - go for it! :)
 
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jimpeel

New member
faraway

Try the excercise I described in my post to see how the natural point of the various handguns fits you.
 
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Bob Locke

New member
I find I can point shoot pretty well out to about 7 yards, and can shoot "front sight only" out to about 10-12.
 
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mrsMTN

New member
WyldOne, they are referring to a timed competition at a range, with targets -- not just on the street.
 
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WyldOne

New member
but....isn't idpa supposed to be a realistic thing for self-defense shooters? aren't any of you afraid of stray bullets? what if you don't look at where you shoot, and you accidentally shoot a little kid instead of the bg? and then the bg attacks you anyway, so i would think that would be a double-whammy against you....
 
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Ewok_Guy

New member
Out to about 15 yards I'll always point shoot.
But a good sight picture is critical at 25 yards and beyond.
 
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Andrewh

New member
WyldOne- I guess that is why I asked if anyone else did this. It was a learning experience. Aparently when I am on the clock, I "forget" a lot of the stuff I think I have learned.
I am pretty good at the range when no one is telling me how much time I have, so I figured IDPA was the next step in training. It surprised me that I didn't aim, or don't remember aiming.
Inspite of that, I did okay. 15th out of 22 for my first time out.
I know I point and shoot well. I have done it for years in paintball and quickdraw. But all of those had other factors. Paintball was an accuracy by volume type shooting, and quickdraw was only out to maybe 15 feet. So it was surprizing I could hit out to 15 yards the same way.
I must admit, I did do worse at the 15 mark, but that I also atribute to them making me jumpy on how I was shooting. Paintball gives you bad habits, so they started to get on me for not standing behind the barriers while shooting(which I am fine with,) but it made me shoot funny so I hit one good guy(but got the bad guy through them,) while I was bouncing from around the barrier.
 
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WyldOne

New member
wait....is this for real? you guys all do this, and they don't yell at you at idpa matches for it?

this sounds like one of the bazillions of newscasts i heard when i was growing up, that helped foster my "anti" mentality. but it's true? don't look where you shoot, just take your gun out and fire away??

:confused:
 
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Ben Swenson

New member
No, WyldOne, what they are trying to say is that they don't spend a lot of time making sure the sights are perfectly aligned and such. Basically, they spend a huge amount of time and ammunition learning how a gun "feels" to shoot. Then when they fire in a timed match (or god forbid, in a self defense situation) they are able to fire quickly and accurately by staring at where they want to hit on the target.

It's not really my cup-o-tea, but I have seen it done exceptionally well. I've tried it for a bit and didn't do terribly, but always felt that with my level of shooting skills, I'm going to be less accurate and only very slightly faster (again, this is with me - some people can be astonishingly fast and accurate with this method) if I don't conciously use the sights. Instead, I've practiced lining the sights up quickly. I'll never win any matches and there might be a self-defense scenario or two where pointshooting might help me survive, but I feel better about bringing the gun up just a little bit farther and staring at the front sight.
 
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M1911

New member
At close range, I've found point shooting to be just as accurate and faster than using the sights. At a recent shooting class, we had a test at the start of the class and repeated the same test at the end. The first problem was to draw from concealment and fire two shots at a steel target -- the first shot at COM and the second at a round falling plate above of the lower target. Distance was 7 yards, IIRC. The first time I did the drill, I used my sites. My time was around 2.3 or 2.4 seconds. At the end of the course, I was convinced of the utility of point shooting, and used it. My time was 2.0 seconds. Works for me.

Regarding the use of point shooting in self defense, this is a fairly controversial topic. Personally, I believe that under stress, at close distances, I will be focussing on the threat, whether I want to or not, rather than my front site. I've seen this under the stress of some competitions and role playing (including simunitions). I've used point shooting and I've hit my targets. If I'm at a longer distance, then I have more time and I will use my sites. But up close and personal, I'll point shoot.

M1911
 
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jwise

New member
My first time out at an IPSC match, I used my sights just like at the range. I had the best accuracy out there, with an almost perfect round (all A-zone hits). However, my time was nearly three times that of the winner of the match.

Since then, I have tried to increase my speed on the up-close targets by point shooting, and my accuracy hasn't really suffered. I don't get "perfect" rounds, but they all stay center mass.

Just to state it for the record, point-shooting is not "shooting without looking," rather it is "pointing" at what you're staring at, and pulling the trigger.
 
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