Do these things really matter?.....

[Sigkid79]

So I’ve seen hundreds of YouTube gun reviews on all different makes/models. Each reviewer always touches on certain things such as:

Take up
Break
Wall
Reset
Etc..

My question is, in a life or death self defense situation, do these things even matter?

My only concern in this situation is... do I have enough firepower to stop the threat and will the gun go bang when I pull the trigger.

Am I missing something?

 

[eflyguy]

They matter a lot if the threat is at 100yds or more and you're shooting thru a scope off a bench.
They matter very little if you are firing a 1911 on the move through your home in the dark engaging mobile, evasive targets.

Somewhere in between falls the real world. In my very humble opinion, being comfortable handling your weapon counts for much more than any specification.

 

[lunger]

Am I missing something?

Your target ?

 

[Sigkid79]

Maybe I should have clarified. I’m speaking about when handling a semi auto pistol. Not a rifle, shotgun, etc..

 

[lee n. field]

So I’ve seen hundreds of YouTube gun reviews on all different makes/models. Each reviewer always touches on certain things such as:

Take up
Break
Wall
Reset
Etc..

My question is, in a life or death self defense situation, do these things even matter?

Nope. You'll never even notice.

My guess is, you don't even notice in regular no-stress range shooting. The only time you really notice is when you're sitting there slowly pulling the trigger, for your youtube review.

 

[Shadow9mm]

So I’ve seen hundreds of YouTube gun reviews on all different makes/models. Each reviewer always touches on certain things such as:

Take up
Break
Wall
Reset
Etc..

My question is, in a life or death self defense situation, do these things even matter?

My only concern in this situation is... do I have enough firepower to stop the threat and will the gun go bang when I pull the trigger.

Am I missing something?

How are you defining "firepower"

In a defensive situation what is most important is getting rounds on target. It does not matter how much firepower you have, whether it is 22cb, or 50ae if you cannot get rounds on target.

A a better trigger.. short take up, clean break after the wall, short reset, will let you fire faster and more accurately giving you a better chance of getting rounds on target....

That's not to say you cant make a double action only 5shot 38spl with a long 12lb indistinct pull with fixed front and rear sights that did not shoot point of aim (6in low left) work (I did for a while)... its just somewhat less than optimal and requires a lot more training to use it effectively.

Most youtube reviews, from what I can tell, are intended to help people decide on firearms purchases. Most buyers want the latest and greatest. These vids are intended to give points of comparison so people can buy "the best"....

 

[CDW4ME]

What matters:
Ability to make quick accurate hits.
Caliber that has decent ASAP incapacitation potential, 12-18 inches penetration after heavy clothing and consistent expansion is desired.
Capacity*, in the event that additional shots are required to stop threat(s) being out of ammo would suck.

IMO a consistent trigger like Glock, Shield, or 1911 is easier to shoot quick & accurate than DA/SA or a heavy DA like a revolver.

Capacity* I've carried a 1911 that is 7 + 1 with flush fit Tripp/Cobra mag along with two spare mags.
Less than 8 rounds before slidelock/reload, no thanks, nope.

Spare mag is part of malfunction clearance, so carry one for that reason alone, even if you don't think the extra ammo necessary.

None of that matters less based on area.

 

[Sigkid79]

If you’re shooting at a threat 100yrds away, you better have an amazing lawyer who can explain to a judge why you shot/killed a person who is a football field away is a perceived imminent threat. Lol.

 

[l.cutler]

I would say it only matters that you practice with the pistol until you are completely comfortable and familiar with the reset, trigger break etc. Every gun is different and knowing your gun like it is an extension of your own hand is most important.

 

[JohnKSa]

Holdover from bullseye days.

When you're holding a gun one-handed in a loose grip and cranking shots off at a bullseye 50 yards distant, small nuances in the trigger make a big difference.

When you're holding a gun two-handed in a proper shooting grip that will control recoil small differences in the trigger don't mean much.

There are some things that will make a trigger very hard to shoot well--overtravel with a heavy pull is a very difficult combination to deal with. But even a really heavy trigger pull can be managed well if it's fairly uniform in pull weight, not gritty or plagued with a lot of overtravel.

 

[TunnelRat]

I think when you’re doing a review that is often meant for comparison between different products with the eventual goal the purchase of a firearm (as Shadow pointed out quite well above) then it does matter to a certain audience. Not all people purchasing firearms are doing so from the strictly martial stance of self defense. Some are buying pistols that while those pistols might be carried or used for home defense they will also be shot at the range or even in competition (informal or otherwise). In those cases the notion of a better trigger might seem important. Frankly it’s also just a talking point. Currently striker fired polymer framed pistols using the Browning tilting barrel design and feeding from detachable magazines are very popular. From the perspective of making a review you have to have something to talk about and given how similar many of those pistols are, the trigger is an easy area to focus on.

In terms of shooting on a range I personally have had triggers on semiautomatic pistols where the reset was long enough that I essentially “short stroked” the trigger. These weren’t DAO pistols either, in particular it was a DA/SA HK P2000. And it wasn’t that I didn’t shoot the pistol enough to build familiarity with it. At the time that was the primary pistol I was shooting for over a year. What I found is when I pushed myself for speed I could potentially short stroke the trigger. That could potentially matter in a life or death scenario. That’s not to say I couldn’t learn to temper my speed either.

Now on the other side of that I have handled pistols in stores where during dry fire one pistol seemed to have a notably better trigger than another. When I shot those pistols on the range other factors such as ergonomics, bore axis, etc made those differences in trigger not nearly as obvious. Primarily for me this was with Glocks. Many people often comment that the trigger on Glocks are subpar or like a staple gun. Weirdly I shoot them well. It’s not that I don’t appreciate a better trigger, it’s just that for me those differences are not always critical.

From the self defense standpoint I try and take a lot of training courses. One of those was a three day course titled, “Active Shooter Response”. After two days of live fire the final day was made up of different scenarios using UTM pistols (similar to simunitions). Those pistols were DA/SA and DAK SIG P226s. I primarily shot Glocks at the time, although I had shot SIGs for a few years before that. There were obviously some differences in triggers. I can’t say I noticed any of those differences in the scenarios. I was lucky when I remembered to keep my focus on the sights and I was oblivious to the weight or travel of the trigger when I did press it. Most recently I shot a P320 set up for UTM and it was the same, no memory of the trigger on my part (though I will say the practice shots I fired at the beginning of the day were easier with the P320).

So what is the conclusion of all that I wrote above? I think trigger differences can matter in certain situations, but I’m skeptical of whether they’re nearly as critical as they’re made out to be in a YouTube review. I have a number of channels I like watching on YouTube, just keep in mind whether it is a review on YouTube or in a magazine part of the goal is often selling products. That doesn’t mean the review is “wrong”, just that the hype might not be all it’s cracked up to be.


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[Japle]

Some people might tell you that, in a fight, you won’t use the skills you use on the range.
That might be right or wrong, depending on what you’re doing on the range. If you’re just shooting at paper targets with no pressure, the skills might not be used in a fight. But if you’re a competitor, in USPSA or Steel Challenge, for instance, they will be used.
The stakes will be higher in a fight, but if you’re accustomed to shooting under pressure, you’ll be much more likely to pay attention to sight picture, trigger control, follow-through and calling the shot.
You’ll never have any idea how you’ll react to an emergency until you stand on the firing line waiting for the BEEP. If you lose it with everyone watching you, risking nothing except your pride, you’re probably not gonna do well in a gunfight.
Compete. It might save your life.

 

[Skans]

Take up
Break
Wall
Reset
Etc..

My question is, in a life or death self defense situation, do these things even matter?

For one attacker, relatively close range - no, these things do not matter. For multiple attackers/targets, yes, these things matter.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Nope. You'll never even notice.

Just because you don't notice something doesn't mean it wasn't relevant at the time of the event. I have seen interviews with folks who said that they did not recall noticing or using their sights, but when you see the video of their shooting, they are clearly using their sights.

If all the factors in the OP are keeping you from shooting a given gun well during practice, there is no reason to expect that those factors are going to magically go away during combat and that they will stop mattering.

That's not to say you cant make a double action only 5shot 38spl with a long 12lb indistinct pull with fixed front and rear sights that did not shoot point of aim (6in low left) work (I did for a while)... its just somewhat less than optimal and requires a lot more training to use it effectively.

^^This^^

 

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Nope. You'll never even notice.

My guess is, you don't even notice in regular no-stress range shooting. The only time you really notice is when you're sitting there slowly pulling the trigger, for your youtube review.

Lol, now that is funny and so true.
I shoot DAO, never have ridden a reset etc. While there may a little truth to some of it, not really much unless you are a Youtuber or as you say someone that is new and buys into all the internet garbage out there. You know the newbie that goes up to the LGS counter wants the Lightest trigger and the shortest trigger because of the internet so called pros. Or he or she is the type that go to a range and target shoot every round.
That said, some gun over exaggerate some of the features. And some trigger just not as nice. Like some DAO are better than others. There is no reason to have a very light trigger and a short reset or be able and I laugh, to be able to "hear the reset". The internet is over the top on most things. Know your gun, shoot often is the key.

 

[TunnelRat]

Lol, now that is funny and so true.
I shoot DAO, never have ridden a reset etc. While there may a little truth to some of it, not really much unless you are a Youtuber or as you say someone that is new and buys into all the internet garbage out there. You know the newbie that goes up to the LGS counter wants the Lightest trigger and the shortest trigger because of the internet so called pros. Or he or she is the type that go to a range and target shoot every round.
That said, some gun over exaggerate some of the features. And some trigger just not as nice. Like some DAO are better than others. There is no reason to have a very light trigger and a short reset or be able and I laugh, to be able to "hear the reset". The internet is over the top on most things. Know your gun, shoot often is the key.

Seemingly lumping everyone that prefers a different trigger to yourself into the newbie/ slave to trends category is pretty disingenuous.


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[sigarms228]

Sure it can matter. My HK P30L had a pretty bad DA trigger pull out of the box and even after 500 rounds. I changed to a slightly lighter hammer spring and also the lighter HK firing pin block spring and after that the DA trigger pull was much improved being a couple pounds lighter with no stacking. I can now hit dead center target no problem when using DA trigger pull holding both hands with very significant improvement with strong had only and weak hand only too.

However with my Gen 2 Glock 19 and my Walther PPS the trigger was fine as it was out of the box and I shoot both out to 75 feet when at the range.

I will take a nice trigger over a crappy trigger every day if everything else is the same but not having a terrific trigger is not a deal breaker for me if everything else about a pistols works well for me under live fire as long as the trigger is at least "decent" or can be easily remedied like on my HK P30L.

 

[stinkeypete]

You are missing that this is a sport, not combat.

I used to shoot hundreds of rounds per week training for lowly club level league nights.

All the things you list matter in exponentially in the desired precision and accuracy you hope to achieve.

Hunting? Squirrels and rabbits can be small targets and deer... a large investment in skill and time so nice tools respecting the animal are appropriate.

Plate competitions? I haven’t done them but they look challenging and fun! You bet triggers matter when shooting plates as fast as you can.

Cowboy action? From costumes to period correct, nice gear is part of the fun. So are good scores.

While I see guys at the range shooting giant pizza pan sized targets at 5 yards, I am shooting at tea cup saucers at 50 yards.

It’s a lot more likely you’ll need a fire extinguisher in your home this year than a gun. Do you have one?.

 

[RickB]

Hitting a target with a handgun is a very difficult task, under ideal conditions.
I'd like to have every advantage available to me, all the time.
If I were to make a list of important traits in a handgun, for any use, I'd put excellent trigger action ahead of every other, except perhaps mechanical reliability.
Firepower would be down the list, after everything that contributes to getting a quick, accurate hit with the the FIRST shot.

 

[reddog81]

Seemingly lumping everyone that prefers a different trigger to yourself into the newbie/ slave to trends category is pretty disingenuous. It’s also engaging in the same behavior that I imagine you yourself find insulting when on the receiving end.


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I agree and can certainly tell the difference between various triggers. For a new shooter with limited experience the difference between triggers will be of little note. For someone who visits the range on a regular basis and shoots a variety of guns you will start notice even minor variations between similar triggers.

If trying to hit a 10" plate at 10 yards the trigger won't make that big of a difference. Trying to shoot a 10" plate at 100 yards and all the sudden a good trigger becomes a must. Try to shoot 6 plates as quickly as possible and that reset starts to matter.

It all depends on your requirements and expectations.