do i want to trade ???
- Thread starter KITT
- Start date
p220fortyfive
New member
There is only one solution: keep the P-228 AND buy the P-229. If this is too extravagant, then keep the p-228 and buy some hi-cap factory magazines and ammo instead. The P-228 is too sweet to give up.
I recently sold my sig P 228 and was missing it like mad since all my other guns are too big for CCW . I bought a G 23 . 40 and it fits my hand and carry methods just like the 228 did. If I had found a reasonably priced one I would have bougth a P 229 but with the G 23 I do not feel like I am missing on something by not having the P 229.
If you are sure you do not want it sell it as it will not bring any fun sitting in the safe. BTW the 229 can be converted to 9mm and 357 sig so you will end up with a better platform IMHO.
If you are sure you do not want it sell it as it will not bring any fun sitting in the safe. BTW the 229 can be converted to 9mm and 357 sig so you will end up with a better platform IMHO.
Grayfox,
I have read many of your posts, so this reply to your .40 S&W comment is offered with respect. I simply cannot agree with your opinion that the .40 S&W is a poor round - and that the 9mm is clearly superior. My opinion is based on the following data and analysis.
I did a comparison using Federal ammunition information (from their Internet site), which provides some key facts:
Round Grains Muzzle Velocity (Ft/Sec) Muzzle Energy (Ft/Lbs)
9mm FMJ 124 1120 345
9mm FMJ 115 1160 345
.40 FMJ 180 990 380
.40 FMJ 165 1140 350
.40 FMJ 155 950 445
Based on these facts and assuming generally equal circumstances, I have concluded:
> Each of the three .40 S&W loads should provide equal or slightly better penetration than either of the two 9mm rounds, due to muzzle energy.
> Each of the three .40 S&W loads should provide somewhat better expansion than either of the two 9mm rounds, due to diameter.
> Most of the better semiautomatics (Sig, H&K, Glock, etc.) manufacturers have essentially the same "pistol family" available for the 9mm and .40 S&W, which means that all firearms parameters - like concealed carriage, intrinsic weapons accuracy and reliability, etc. - will be virtually identical.
> Currently ten round magazines are the legally constrained production limit (for non-LEO use), so my analysis assumes an identical "10+0" or "10+1" for either round.
I certainly realize the statistics used in this analysis can lead to other conclusions. In essence, however, the .40 S&W is a slightly bigger/heavier round with good muzzle velocity. In addition, I find it to be every bit as accurate - how many or us can actually "out shoot" the inherent accuracy of any bullet? - as the 9mm.
Please consider that many law enforcement agencies have recently changed from 9mm to .40 S&W. Maybe they've done this to obtain newer/better weapons, but I know of none that have gone from the .40 S&W to the 9mm.
Have a Merry Christmas and best regards.
I have read many of your posts, so this reply to your .40 S&W comment is offered with respect. I simply cannot agree with your opinion that the .40 S&W is a poor round - and that the 9mm is clearly superior. My opinion is based on the following data and analysis.
I did a comparison using Federal ammunition information (from their Internet site), which provides some key facts:
Round Grains Muzzle Velocity (Ft/Sec) Muzzle Energy (Ft/Lbs)
9mm FMJ 124 1120 345
9mm FMJ 115 1160 345
.40 FMJ 180 990 380
.40 FMJ 165 1140 350
.40 FMJ 155 950 445
Based on these facts and assuming generally equal circumstances, I have concluded:
> Each of the three .40 S&W loads should provide equal or slightly better penetration than either of the two 9mm rounds, due to muzzle energy.
> Each of the three .40 S&W loads should provide somewhat better expansion than either of the two 9mm rounds, due to diameter.
> Most of the better semiautomatics (Sig, H&K, Glock, etc.) manufacturers have essentially the same "pistol family" available for the 9mm and .40 S&W, which means that all firearms parameters - like concealed carriage, intrinsic weapons accuracy and reliability, etc. - will be virtually identical.
> Currently ten round magazines are the legally constrained production limit (for non-LEO use), so my analysis assumes an identical "10+0" or "10+1" for either round.
I certainly realize the statistics used in this analysis can lead to other conclusions. In essence, however, the .40 S&W is a slightly bigger/heavier round with good muzzle velocity. In addition, I find it to be every bit as accurate - how many or us can actually "out shoot" the inherent accuracy of any bullet? - as the 9mm.
Please consider that many law enforcement agencies have recently changed from 9mm to .40 S&W. Maybe they've done this to obtain newer/better weapons, but I know of none that have gone from the .40 S&W to the 9mm.
Have a Merry Christmas and best regards.
RWK,
No offense taken. I never have a problem with anybody who simply disagrees with me. You are correct, I don't like the .40 S&W. Granted, it does have good muzzle energy and bullet weight. When properly put on target, it will do the job. My dislike for it comes from its poor accuracy. I have owned one and shot several others. I have even shot both 9mm and .40 versions of basicly the same gun from the same manufacturer including the Sigs. In every case, the 9mm proved to be considerably more accurate than the .40. For that matter, I've found the .45acp to be much more accurate out of almost any gun.
The .40 I had was the S&W 4006. I bought it shortly after the .40 S&W was introduced because I bought into all the hype around the cartridge. At the same time I also owned two S&W 9mm pistols, both of which shot rings around the forty. I returned the 4006 to the factory and was told that nothing was wrong with it. This is as good as it gets.
Accually, I'm not the worlds biggest fan of the 9mm. I prefer the .45 acp as a defensive round. However, I can't ignore almost 100 years of history in which the 9mm has proven to be an excellent round. The forty is still trying to prove itself as there simply haven't been enough shootings yet to make a difinative judgement. Time will tell.
I have and occasionally still do carry a pistol in 9mm and felt completely confident in its ability to protect me. I never did react that level of confidence with the .40.
No matter what gun/cartridge you use, first you have to be able to put the bullet on target. Like its been said before, a hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44 mag.
Just for the record, I now only have one 9mm. A Browning Hi-power. I may, at some point in the future, buy another nine. But, I'll never buy another forty.
For those of you who are fans of the .40 S&W, more power to ya. Cause the bottom line is you must be confident in what you carry and if for you that's the .40, I wouldn't dream of trying to change your mind.
JMHO.
No offense taken. I never have a problem with anybody who simply disagrees with me. You are correct, I don't like the .40 S&W. Granted, it does have good muzzle energy and bullet weight. When properly put on target, it will do the job. My dislike for it comes from its poor accuracy. I have owned one and shot several others. I have even shot both 9mm and .40 versions of basicly the same gun from the same manufacturer including the Sigs. In every case, the 9mm proved to be considerably more accurate than the .40. For that matter, I've found the .45acp to be much more accurate out of almost any gun.
The .40 I had was the S&W 4006. I bought it shortly after the .40 S&W was introduced because I bought into all the hype around the cartridge. At the same time I also owned two S&W 9mm pistols, both of which shot rings around the forty. I returned the 4006 to the factory and was told that nothing was wrong with it. This is as good as it gets.
Accually, I'm not the worlds biggest fan of the 9mm. I prefer the .45 acp as a defensive round. However, I can't ignore almost 100 years of history in which the 9mm has proven to be an excellent round. The forty is still trying to prove itself as there simply haven't been enough shootings yet to make a difinative judgement. Time will tell.
I have and occasionally still do carry a pistol in 9mm and felt completely confident in its ability to protect me. I never did react that level of confidence with the .40.
No matter what gun/cartridge you use, first you have to be able to put the bullet on target. Like its been said before, a hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44 mag.
Just for the record, I now only have one 9mm. A Browning Hi-power. I may, at some point in the future, buy another nine. But, I'll never buy another forty.
For those of you who are fans of the .40 S&W, more power to ya. Cause the bottom line is you must be confident in what you carry and if for you that's the .40, I wouldn't dream of trying to change your mind.
JMHO.
Why? Why? Why would you want to sell the world's finest DA/SA compact 9mm? What will you gain? The P229 is very sweet. But if I were I'd hold out and save a bit more, then buy the P229 without selling what you already have. Consider this:
The P228 is only sold in small lots to civilians.
SIG Arms is transitioning from German made and assembled P228s to US assembled pistols.
What made you buy the P228 in the first place? Does it no longer balance right? Does not feel awesome in your hand?
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So many pistols, so little money.
The P228 is only sold in small lots to civilians.
SIG Arms is transitioning from German made and assembled P228s to US assembled pistols.
What made you buy the P228 in the first place? Does it no longer balance right? Does not feel awesome in your hand?
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So many pistols, so little money.
Just my $0.02 on the 9mm vs. .40 S&W. I agree with Grayfox on the inherent accuracy of the two rounds, as I have also found the 9mm to be superior in that respect. I also agree that the .40 S&W would definitely bring a little more whallop on the other end, but I believe that the 9mm can make up for this with higher bullet velocities.
And I would add that I believe you will find a lot of the same police forces that switched to the .40 S&W when it first came out are ALSO now switching to the .357 Sig. Some people just have a "need" for the "latest and greatest", and I suspect that the .400 Cor-Bon will soon make its entry into the law enforcement arena.
As far as the P228 is concerned, I wouldn't part with one if I had it. It is a great concealed carry gun (I own a P239 myself), and when push comes to shove, it's going to be a LOT easier to find 9mm ammo than .40 S&W.
For what it's worth.
And I would add that I believe you will find a lot of the same police forces that switched to the .40 S&W when it first came out are ALSO now switching to the .357 Sig. Some people just have a "need" for the "latest and greatest", and I suspect that the .400 Cor-Bon will soon make its entry into the law enforcement arena.
As far as the P228 is concerned, I wouldn't part with one if I had it. It is a great concealed carry gun (I own a P239 myself), and when push comes to shove, it's going to be a LOT easier to find 9mm ammo than .40 S&W.
For what it's worth.
I have to agree with Grayfox. The .40 S&W just does not seem to want to shoot straight. I bought a 229 in 40 cal when they first came out. I also own a 220 in 45. There simply is no contest between the accuracy. I sold the 229 and picked up a 239 in 9mm that shoots almost as well as my 220. If I was going to get another 229, it would be in 9mm or 357SIG. JMHO 
PS-- you can always get a drop in barrel for the 40 if you get the 357SIG.
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"peace, love, joy, and happiness..."
[This message has been edited by tobeat1 (edited December 20, 1999).]
PS-- you can always get a drop in barrel for the 40 if you get the 357SIG.
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"peace, love, joy, and happiness..."
[This message has been edited by tobeat1 (edited December 20, 1999).]
Grayfox,
Thanks for your reply. I have been away from TFL (traveling on business in Texas) this week and have not has an opportunity to respond sooner.
Turns out we actually agree -- we both prefer the .45 ACP. It is my "daily carry" round (in a Kimber 1911A1 full size or a Sig P-220). I may prefer the .40 S&W to the 9mm, but the .45 is better than either (IMHO).
Have you tried the .357 Sig yet? I think it is an excellent round: really a 9mm, about the same weight (125 grains), but terrific muzzle velocity and point-of-aim accuracy. The only problem is the cost, which may decrease over time, is steep for a couple hundred rounds of target shooting a week.
Have a good Christmas.
Thanks for your reply. I have been away from TFL (traveling on business in Texas) this week and have not has an opportunity to respond sooner.
Turns out we actually agree -- we both prefer the .45 ACP. It is my "daily carry" round (in a Kimber 1911A1 full size or a Sig P-220). I may prefer the .40 S&W to the 9mm, but the .45 is better than either (IMHO).
Have you tried the .357 Sig yet? I think it is an excellent round: really a 9mm, about the same weight (125 grains), but terrific muzzle velocity and point-of-aim accuracy. The only problem is the cost, which may decrease over time, is steep for a couple hundred rounds of target shooting a week.
Have a good Christmas.