Do I have bad lead?

[Dead-Nuts-Zero]

Somewhat new to casting, have about 6k bullet experience with 5 different molds, everything working great over several sessions in last year or so.

Using recovered INDOOR range lead that I melted & poured into ingots for later use, have used them with great success in bottom pour Lee pot.

Using same source/batch of lead mentioned above, I poured off a few bars into the Lee ingot mold while casting bullets and found that some of them would break when I dumped out the mold. The lead would crumble like breaking a cookie exposing sugar looking crystals/granules of lead.

When thin ingots are still warm, I can bend some of them while others break as described, all from same pot of lead.

Have I overheated the lead or under / over fluxed it with sawdust? I'm removing the slag after fluxing but remelts are not producing any noticeable amount of slag. Thinking I have cast hundreds of bad bullets I remelted & cast again with same results.

My next move is to abandon this lead & start fresh, but really want to understand what I'm doing wrong...ANY SUGGESTIONS???

 

[USSR]

Don't know what you've got there Dead-Nuts-Zero, but that's not normal lead. I'd toss it and start over.

Don

 

[Mike / Tx]

I've had that before and haven't a clue what caused it. I was told too much antimony, too hot, yada yada.

I added it to my pot one ingot at a time with some that was almost pure Pb, once stirred in with a chunk of paraffin I noticed nothing unusual with the bullets poured. I did however relegate those batches to target type bullets for the 38 and 45acp.

 

[dahermit]

Somewhat new to casting, have about 6k bullet experience with 5 different molds, everything working great over several sessions in last year or so.

Using recovered INDOOR range lead that I melted & poured into ingots for later use, have used them with great success in bottom pour Lee pot.

Using same source/batch of lead mentioned above, I poured off a few bars into the Lee ingot mold while casting bullets and found that some of them would break when I dumped out the mold. The lead would crumble like breaking a cookie exposing sugar looking crystals/granules of lead.

When thin ingots are still warm, I can bend some of them while others break as described, all from same pot of lead.

Have I overheated the lead or under / over fluxed it with sawdust? I'm removing the slag after fluxing but remelts are not producing any noticeable amount of slag. Thinking I have cast hundreds of bad bullets I remelted & cast again with same results.

My next move is to abandon this lead & start fresh, but really want to understand what I'm doing wrong...ANY SUGGESTIONS???

If the bullet moulds fill out correctly when you cast bullets, brittleness of your engets when hot is almost always a sign of high antimony content. Zinc or Calcium contamination would keep your bullets from filling out correctly.

It is not a problem. For God's sake do not throw away usable Lead alloy...just add some pure/"plumber's lead to soften them up (or shoot them as they are).

 

[Dead-Nuts-Zero]

My cast bullets all looked good, however I was unsure and remelted most of them. My plan is to work in the 25 pounds.of the suspected bad lead gradually with good lead over time to use it up.
I saved about 300 of the questionable bullets in 9 & 44, and powder coated them today, they look great. Will try to get some plinking fun out of them.

Thanks to all for your comments.

 

[mehavey]

found that some of them would break when I dumped out the mold.
The lead would crumble like breaking a cookie exposing sugar looking
crystals/granules of lead

How hot were the ingots when you dumped them from the mold and they broke ?

 

[Dead-Nuts-Zero]

mehavey - Can't tell you temp. but they were fairly hot, maybe 450 - 500 when I first discovered this problem.

In trouble shooting, I also tried allowing some thin pours to cool to maybe 200, some would break, some would bend (using pliers on each end of the thin bars). As I recall, the cooler the lead bars the more likely they were to bend.
I worked them back & forth several times to get them to break/tear exposing various stages of granules with each bar.

It was mostly the thick bars that were crumbling showing the most granules, and once they were cold I could wack them on table & they would continue to break/crumble.

 

[LOLBELL]

Don't know what you've got there Dead-Nuts-Zero, but that's not normal lead. I'd toss it and start over.

Don

Lead not suppose to break?? Tried some known wheel weights, all of them broke, mind you they bent first but every one broke. This was at about 80* F.

 

[USSR]

Quote:
Originally Posted by USSR View Post
Don't know what you've got there Dead-Nuts-Zero, but that's not normal lead. I'd toss it and start over.

Don

Lead not suppose to break?? Tried some known wheel weights, all of them broke, mind you they bent first but every one broke. This was at about 80* F.

High antimony lead breaks, but read the OP, he's using range lead which is typically swaged lead at about 2% Sb, hardly high antimony. If I had lead like that that "would crumble like breaking a cookie exposing sugar looking crystals/granules of lead", I'd toss it. Lead is cheap. Just MHO.

Don

 

[jaguarxk120]

Have you tested the bullets/ingots for hardness?
What hot lead does is one thing, and besides
your not shooting ingots are you.
Make the bullets and shoot them just as dahermit has said.

 

[mehavey]

Do things look like this, perchance?

If so, that crystalline structure in the break is purely a function of the internal ingot temperature still being too hot when put in stress.

Let things cool and you'll be fine:

 

[dahermit]

High antimony lead breaks, but read the OP, he's using range lead which is typically swaged lead at about 2% Sb, hardly high antimony. If I had lead like that that "would crumble like breaking a cookie exposing sugar looking crystals/granules of lead", I'd toss it. Lead is cheap. Just MHO.

That assumes that the range where he getting his lead does not a lot of bullet casters using it. "Range lead" can be any alloy of lead, especially if it allows handloads and bullet casters to use the range.

As for lead being "cheap", here in Southern Michigan, sellers (Craig's List and Facebook Market Place) are typically demanding $2.00/lb. now...not exactly "cheap".

The only lead alloy that I found to be virtually unusable was that which had been contaminated by Zinc (from Zinc wheel weights) or Calcium (from no-maintenance batteries). All other lead alloys that I have encountered since the middle sixties (yup, I am that old), when I began casting, were usable as bullet casting alloys.

Original poster: If you live close by (Litchfield, MI), I will take that "bad" alloy off your hands and will pay you $1.00 a pound to do it...I ain't no fool.

 

[Dead-Nuts-Zero]

mehavey - My broken lead looks much like your photo but I'm seeing a bit larger grains & some cracking.

After looking over your post and the other comments, I'm thinking you may have solved my mystery. I think the problem is hot lead under stress. When I discovered the 1st break I was pushing my ingot production by dumping the mold as soon as it appeared solid enough to dump.

When I melted my bulk range lead last fall, I cast it into about 60 2 lb. ingots. Have cast bullets 2 other times from that source without any problems, that's why I couldn't believe the lead was the problem.

Being new to casting, I thought perhaps I was over fluxing or maybe overheated the lead or some other beginner mistakes...like prematurely dumping my hot ingots LOL.

Next time I cast I will experiment more with hot & cold lead and see what happens.

Thanks for all the comments!

 

[USSR]

That assumes that the range where he getting his lead does not a lot of bullet casters using it.

Good point.

As for lead being "cheap", here in Southern Michigan, sellers (Craig's List and Facebook Market Place) are typically demanding $2.00/lb. now...not exactly "cheap".

Wow. You'd be better off buying from the sellers on the castboolits website. Here, lead is 80 cents a pound and lead wheel weights are 45 cents a pound. I feel for ya.

Don

 

[dahermit]

Wow. You'd be better off buying from the sellers on the castboolits website. Here, lead is 80 cents a pound and lead wheel weights are 45 cents a pound. I feel for ya.

Now if you would just post some links for that cheap lead.

 

[USSR]

Next time I see one, I'll send you the link in a PM.

Don