Dissecting the new Hornady Superformance .308

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dbooksta

New member
I was wondering whether Hornady's "highly progressive" Superformance propellant was code for "blended" propellants. I finally got my hands on a box of new Superformance .308 165gr SST. I pulled one apart and here is what I found:

  • COAL = 2.74"
  • Bullet length = 1.27"
  • Bullet is very tightly crimped on cannelure .54" above the boat-tail base
  • Powder charge was 47.7gr which filled the case but was not compressed

As far as I can see the powder is mostly homogeneous. However in the bottom-most photo you can see there are a few scattered poop-like extrusions that stand out in what is otherwise a sea of relatively uniform propellant granules. Perhaps someone experienced in powder can speculate on whether those are significant?

Superformance308.jpg


Superformance308powder.jpg


Superformance308powder-Closeup.jpg
 
G

GeauxTide

New member
I'm sure it's not OTC counter stuff. I'll wait to see what the chronograph reads because Ammo Marketeers have notoriously long noses. With the advanced technology in bullets in the past five years, 100-200fps is not going to kill them any deader or faster.
 
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HiBC

New member
One way higher velocity can be achieved is to broaden the pressure curve.The peak pressure is not raised,but it is held for a longer time.This will work fine in a bolt rifle.It may not work fine in a gas operated rifle.

Part of higher performance ammo can also be the fact that the factory has quality controls a handloader does not have.As the factory begins using a lot of powder,they can test it and take it to a max permissible pressure without as much margin for production error,if their processes are under control.
 
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SL1

New member
From what I have read, they do use blended powders. But, I don't think you are going to be able to tell that by looking at them. From what I understand, they use the same granule sizes, but different deterent coatings to keep some granules peaking until others have already passed peak, thus spreading-out the pressure curve. By using identical granules, they avoid layering due to vibration.

SL1
 
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FrankenMauser

New member
From what I have read, they do use blended powders. But, I don't think you are going to be able to tell that by looking at them. From what I understand, they use the same granule sizes, but different deterent coatings to keep some granules peaking until others have already passed peak, thus spreading-out the pressure curve. By using identical granules, they avoid layering due to vibration.

SL1
Click to expand...

I learned from the internet, tonight. (The concept)
 
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qcpunk

New member
I think a mouse got into their powder kegs......

Im sorry guys, absolutely could not resist that one.

To point.... I think SL1 is on the right track here. It seems logical that adding some extruded powder to spherical will broaden the burn/pressure curve.
 
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FrankenMauser

New member
I think SL1 is on the right track here. It seems logical that adding some extruded powder to spherical will broaden the burn/pressure curve.
Click to expand...

That's true.

However, the problem of settling is what the process he explained is meant to avoid. By using different coatings (or thickness of coating) on different granules of the same powder, you can achieve a progressive burn - without risking detonation in one part of the cartridge, while the other part hasn't even reached ignition.
 
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Myke_Hart

New member
My first question is how well do they group?

Then I would be tempted to pull another one.

That poo doesn't look right. See if the poo grains wiegh different from the coated uniform grains.

Pull a few of the poo extrusions and see if they burn also. A burn rate test.

I would think the poo would settle to the bottom or rise to the top if they wieghed different causing issues typical of a duplex load.

If I can find some I plan on doing the same. What store did you find them? I am heading to bass pro to see if they have any.


Many scientific tests need to be performed.:D

I do agree it looks like hornady has mice!
 
D

dbooksta

New member
I got this box from MidwayUSA -- had an Email alert set for when they got stock so I could grab one!

I actually put this powder charge in a clear tube and vibrated it to try to get the poo grains to settle to the top, but I couldn't get any stratification at all! So they're pretty well matched to the rest of the powder.

I'm not aware of any burn tests I can do in a home shop on small samples like this that would give useful information, but if you can suggest any I would love to try.

SL1's description sounds the most illuminating and most likely -- a blend of the same powder extrusions but different coatings or inhibitors. Also makes it hard to reverse-engineer the blend! I wonder if there are any tricks to analyze or separate coatings. If the coatings are chemically different then maybe someone with a hyperspectral camera could see it in the mix. If it's the same coating but different thicknesses, or if the difference is inhibitors blended into the powder itself before extrusion, I wonder if anybody could detect that through analysis?
 
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riverwalker76

New member
I'm not sure you could 'Clone' the Hornady Superperformance powder. If that is what you are trying to do.

Hornady uses powders that are engineered to their specs that aren't available to use as hobby reloaders. Now, if you were to get an FFL06 you might get a list of suppliers, but to us it's useless.

In my opinion ... the larger disks look like a flattened out Accurate 2520 powder.

Could the Green ****s be an anti-caking compound to ensure good shelf life?

Just a thought.
 
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5R milspec

New member
well I got a new Alliant guid in the mail the other day.and takeing a look around in it I came across the newer powders that they are offering.and when I went to the loading info part it showed them useing the new 2000lr at 47.7gn with a 175gn bullet getting the same fps most of the guys are getting at snipershide shooting the new ammo over a chrony.and it even looks the same really small spherical shaped.

but was told at snipershide that the new Alliant powder was not the powder they are loading in the new Hornady loads.but this might help out trying to match up the load with the new Hornady bullet when they release it to us shooters.

but for me it just to funny that the newer Alliant powder with a 175gn bullet has the same charge as the Hornady does.so go figure.
 
D

dbooksta

New member
Sounds like you're on the right track: I found across this post at AccurateShooter in which Hornady's Dave Emary notes that these are a blend of ball powders similar to Alliant's Reloder 17.

Hornady is NOT using Alliant’s Reloder 17. However, in some respects, Hornady’s new ball powders behave like Reloder 17 — by “flattening the right side of the pressure curve”. Rather than hitting a high peak pressure and then dropping off dramatically in energy, Reloder 17 sustains high pressure behind the heel of the bullet for a longer in-barrel time. Hornady’s new powders do the same thing — they deliver high energy behind the bullet for more milliseconds as the bullet travels down the bore.
Click to expand...
 
D

dbooksta

New member
Another theory on the scattered ****s in the powder: I was talking to Hodgdon today and they intentionally put markers in some of their powder -- typically the faster stuff. For example, Clays used to have white specs, since replaced by an occasional TrailBoss donut. And of course Alliant adds colored flakes to their x-Dot products. Purpose is to allow easier identification of during QC and reloading.
 
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PawPaw

New member
Except for the extruded grains, it looks a lot like Alliant's Power Pro powders. I've been playing with Power Pro 2000 MR in the .308 and getting some increased velocity from that powder. I've only experimented with 150 grain bullets, but I'm getting 2950 fps across my chronograph and I haven't gotten to a (published) max load yet. I've gone cautiously, used every trick I know and I'm not getting any pressure signs. Primers are normally radiused, the bolt unlocks normally, recoil isn't excessive.

These new powders are interesting. Everything that I've read tells me that the powder companies are learning to flatten the pressure curve and sustain it longer, giving max velocities without the pressure spikes we associate with Kabooms.
 
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Jimro

New member
Pawpaw, I was thinking that the powder looked awefully familiar to 2000mr. The "flattened disk" with occasional extruded grain is pretty much what 2000mr looks like.

Jimro
 
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