Discovered something I DON'T like about my new SIG 1911....

[grinner]

I was cleaning my new SIG 1911 for only the second time yesterday after going to the range, and I noticed something disturbing when I removed the slide. The guide rod had come partially unscrewed! See the attached photos. Note that this is a traditional sized GI rod, NOT a full size rod.

It's not hard to understand how this happened, considering the forces at play. I shudder to think what would have happened if I had not decided to clean when I did and this worked itself completely loose at a subsequent range visit.

Clearly, this should have had Loc-Tite applied, but didn't. But the real question is why did SIG adopt a two-piece GI guide rod instead of a one-piece? I have applied Loc-Tite, but since the barrel and slide will heat up when firing, I don't feel that is a permanent solution. I've ordered a Wilson Combat solid GI rod, which hopefully will slide right in.

Anyone ever see a two-piece short guide rod like this in another 1911? I've looked online and only see that in the full-length rods. Does anyone know if all SIG 1911's have this "feature" or do some have solid rods? I'm tempted to call or email SIG customer service and complain about this and see if they make a solid rod they will send me.

 

[PushPuller]

Curious as to what everyone else has to say about this. I have never seen this, and quite frankly cant think of a single reason why this would be beneficial.

 

[Jim Watson]

I have not seen the like, but it is obviously an economy move. Looks like mold marks on the head, from casting or MIM, the shaft is just straight rod banged out on a screw lathe.

I doubt the recoil spring guide will get hot enough from firing to break Loctite. I would give it a chance. If it does not hold, you could get a different brand. I doubt SIG keeps anything different around.

 

[HiBC]

John Moses Browning did not put a guide rod in the 1911. Unless there is a reason to have one,I don't use them.

A gun built with a comp or a bushingless bull barrel would justify a guide rod.

Depending on your gun's configuration,you might have options between no guide rod and a one piece guiderod.
But those are modifications you may choose to avoid.

If you want to keep it original,I'd think the unscrewing force is coming from compessing and relaxing the helical recoil spring.

I might look at the end of the spring and make sure there is no sharp edge to get a bite on the steel it bears on.
And I might float a stone over the steel the spring bears on. I would not want there to be anything for the spring to get hold of to transmit torque.

I don't doubt Loctite will keep it together.Do you need to be able to take it apart?

 

[B.L.E.]

But the real question is why did SIG adopt a two-piece GI guide rod instead of a one-piece?

My guess would be ease of manufacturing.

 

[polyphemus]

John Moses Browning did not put a guide rod in the 1911. Unless there is a reason to have one,I don't use them.

Say what?
He did, right in his patent application he describes it on page #4 paragraph #10.
There is a very good reason to have it installed,for one thing the reaction spring may find its way into places where it shouldn't be and cause an accident.

 

[polyphemus]

OP,when and if Sig Arms might explain to you why they do that,please get back and share,it'll no doubt be a good topic.
In the meantime buy yourself a nice aftermarket replacement rod and move on.

 

[Jim Watson]

I believe Hibc is contrasting the short BrowningColt/Army short recoil spring guide with the modern fashion fad of the full length guide rod.

 

[polyphemus]

Depending on your gun's configuration,you might have options between no guide rod and a one piece guiderod.

Some contrast.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

John Moses Browning did not put a guide rod in the 1911. Unless there is a reason to have one,I don't use them.

John Browning most certainly did design the M1911 with a guide rod. What he did not design it with was a full-length guide rod.

A gun built with a comp or a bushingless bull barrel would justify a guide rod.

But not necessarily a full-length guide rod. A gun without a barrel bushing needs a flanged, reverse recoil spring plug. Since the plug is retained in the slide by the slide itself, there is no need for a full-length guide rod.

Depending on your gun's configuration,you might have options between no guide rod and a one piece guiderod.

I very much doubt that you can find a 1911 that will function reliably with no guide rod.

 

[grinner]

I believe Hibc is contrasting the short BrowningColt/Army short recoil spring guide with the modern fashion fad of the full length guide rod.

I’m glad I wasn’t the only person confused by HiBC’s comment. Since I’m new to the 1911 platform, I spent a fruitless 30 minutes searching whether this was possible and found nothing on the subject. I agree that HiBC must have been confused that I was talking about a full length guide rod, which often does come in two pieces.

I have applied Loc-Tite to he rod I have and will use that until my replacement arrives. I will also contact SIG Sauer to see what they say about this, and share their answer here.

 

[Archie]

The SIG guide rod design seems to accommodate a captive recoil spring construction to ease take down and reassembly. In order to get the spring on the guide device (and captive) one must either make the guide rod two piece or simply peen or press fit one end or the other.

My son has a more conventional SIG design in 9x19 caliber and the initial - pressed on plastic - 'keeper' of the guide rod (the forward end) simply broke off at the joint. The arm worked as normal until he field stripped the arm for cleaning. It would not reassemble.

SIG USA replaced the part with an updated design, closer to the one you show.

I cannot give an exact answer, but I have a couple guesses.

 

[Mike38]

I have a full length two piece guide rod on my Colt M1911. It comes apart at the middle of the rod, for ease in disassembly I guess. I used blue Loctite on it at original installation. Thousands upon thousands of rounds, and it's never loosened from heat. You'll be fine.

 

[ms6852]

I had a similar incident occur with a Springfield 1911 loaded. It will continue to function properly, but to avoid this occurrence I replaced it with a GI guide rod. Made it easy to disassemble as I needed an Allen wrench in the past.

 

[railroader]

I was cleaning my new SIG 1911 for only the second time yesterday after going to the range, and I noticed something disturbing when I removed the slide. The guide rod had come partially unscrewed! See the attached photos. Note that this is a traditional sized GI rod, NOT a full size rod.

It's not hard to understand how this happened, considering the forces at play. I shudder to think what would have happened if I had not decided to clean when I did and this worked itself completely loose at a subsequent range visit.

Clearly, this should have had Loc-Tite applied, but didn't. But the real question is why did SIG adopt a two-piece GI guide rod instead of a one-piece? I have applied Loc-Tite, but since the barrel and slide will heat up when firing, I don't feel that is a permanent solution. I've ordered a Wilson Combat solid GI rod, which hopefully will slide right in.

Anyone ever see a two-piece short guide rod like this in another 1911? I've looked online and only see that in the full-length rods. Does anyone know if all SIG 1911's have this "feature" or do some have solid rods? I'm tempted to call or email SIG customer service and complain about this and see if they make a solid rod they will send me.

You might need to order a new recoil spring too. The sig guide rods are narrower than a standard GI rod. The flat spring recoil spring sig uses the inside diameter is smaller in diameter.

 

[HiBC]

This isn't worth an argument.

When I look at the blueprint for the 1911 part,its called a "Spring Guide" and it looks like this one:

https://www.brownells.com/handgun-p...-spring-guides-prod41714.aspx?avs|Make_3=1911
As far as I know that is the JMB part .The part name on the Drawing is "Spring Guide"

When someone talks about a 1911 "Guide rod" I don't have a "Spring Guide" come to mind. I envision a one or two piece guide rod like this :

https://www.brownells.com/handgun-p...911-guide-rods-prod41670.aspx?avs|Make_3=1911.
Note this one,like several,does not require a reverse plug.

Its not worth getting excited about the terminology issue. I did not say the JMB 1911 came without a spring guide.
For some reason in the 1970's,the full length guide rod became a fad.
It may have been inspired by the Detonics captive recoil spring /dual spring setup.

My RandalRaider Commander clone came with a guide rod. It complicated field stripping and I saw no need for it.That gun now has a Commander length spring guide,not a rod,and an Ed Brown barrel,bushing,and plug.

If you prefer to call a "Spring guide" a "Guide rod",you go right ahead,whatever makes you happy.

 

[grinner]

You might need to order a new recoil spring too. The sig guide rods are narrower than a standard GI rod. The flat spring recoil spring sig uses the inside diameter is smaller in diameter.

Thanks for the heads up. I didn’t know that. I’ll see if the one I ordered fits, and it it doesn’t, I guess I’ll order a new spring. I don’t like the idea of having a guide rod than can come apart.

 

[grinner]

This isn't worth an argument.

When I look at the blueprint for the 1911 part,its called a "Spring Guide" and it looks like this one:

https://www.brownells.com/handgun-p...-spring-guides-prod41714.aspx?avs|Make_3=1911
As far as I know that is the JMB part .The part name on the Drawing is "Spring Guide"

Thanks for the clarification. This is the type of rod in my SIG, only it is in two pieces that screws together, not a solid piece. My photos did not show the entire rod. I’m new to the 1911 world, and have only seen this referred to as a GI “guide rod” and not a “spring rod.” That’s why I used the term “guide rod”. Thanks for the lesson on the historical terminology.

 

[Rob228]

Spend about $20 on a standard length guide rod and the problem is solved. I know it shouldn't have to be that way, but sometimes it is. The two piece abomination that comes standard in Springfields just blows my mind.

 

[railroader]

Thanks for the heads up. I didn’t know that. I’ll see if the one I ordered fits, and it it doesn’t, I guess I’ll order a new spring. I don’t like the idea of having a guide rod than can come apart.

There's always red locktite for the old rod. I have two sig 1911's and neither rod has come loose.