Disappointment with new Remington 870

[musicmatty]

Just recently purchased the new Remington 870 retro home defense shotgun. Immediately it started Having ejection issues with fired shot shells. For every five rounds loaded into the shotgun, at least two or three would get hung up ejecting.

I cleaned the gun and took it back to the shop that I purchased it from and they sent it back to Remarms. The gun came back approximately 1 month later with a dirty barrel and still exhibiting the exact same issues. The shot shells being used are premium ammo from both ‘Winchester and ‘federal. The same shells were cycling fine with another shotgun during the same outing.

I went on the Remarms website and sent them an email explaining my problem and that I was a very unhappy customer with zero confidence and interest in sending this gun back for a second time. I told them I would prefer either a full refund or a brand new gun of the exam exact model. This firearm comes with a five year warranty but I’m not really sure what that includes. For me, it’s just unacceptable that this gun came back dirty and exhibiting the exact same problem. I fully understand that lemons do make it out the door occasionally. However, once the gun is returned to the factory, it should never find its way back exhibiting the same problem… That’s really unforgivable.

I’ll post a follow up as this progresses. I thought I would post this in case there’s any potential buyers that may want to follow this and see how it plays out.

 

[mehavey]

The shot shells being used are premium ammo from both ‘Winchester and ‘federal.

Brass base, or steel?

 

[musicmatty]

Here’s a pic of the ammo being used. A non issue with a Mossberg and Winchester using this ammo at that same outing.

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

Since the gun has already been shot (aka "used"), I would buy a couple of different brands of shells/quality of shells, and see if the problem persists.

Maybe Remington tested the gun with different ammo and had no problem.

 

[Jim567]

Just a suggestion.
Improved aftermarket extractors are inexpensive.
I installed one on my 870 just because, had no problems.
Cheap to try and maybe save a lot of hassle.
Just a thought.

 

[musicmatty]

Sorry fellas this is a new gun and if you can’t cycle basic Winchester and federal Shot shells that are commonly found any and everywhere, this is unacceptable. I shouldn’t have to go scour high and low for a B or C brand shells that it will cycle. As I said earlier, two other shotguns were cycling the same ammo without any problem. I’m not claiming that all new 870s are problematic… However, I am claiming that this particular 870 is not worthy and Remington should make it right for the customer who owns this 870.

 

[44 AMP]

Going to ask a couple of Captn Obvious questions, just to get them out of the way.

I see two different lengths of shells in the pic, you 870 has a 3in chamber, right??

Second, you say ejection, so extraction is ok, right??

Has anyone else shot the gun and if so did they have the issue??

Could it be the gun is just new, stiff and you're not shucking it hard enough to kick the empties out reliably? (I know its not likely, but I had to ask...)

If you sent them the gun clean and it came back dirty, that means they did test fire it. (and didn't clean it after). But if they didn't have the problem you have, they couldn't fix anything. I agree quality ammo from a quality maker should run flawlessly.

There are only three components here, the gun, the ammo, and you (the way you operate the gun). The ammo works fine in other guns, so, its not the issue. That leaves the gun and you. Remington didn't fix (or apparently find) the problem, so that leaves you at the top of the list.

Have some other people shoot it, if they have the same problem you do, then its probably not you.

I had great faith and trust in Remington 50 years ago, but that Remington doesn't exist today. I'm afraid I have no idea who Remington is, or what they do, these days.

IF there is a good gunsmith (who knows 870s) in your area it might be time to have them check the gun out (if it won't take a month and the shipping hassles). That would be, of course on your dime.

Or you might pursue the often frustrating route of contacting Remington and seeing if you can find out what they found out, what they did, or didn't do.

IF the gun is properly ejecting some shells but not all of them, and its a manually operated action, it would appear that the action is not being worked consistently. This may be the source of the problem. Something else may be the source of the problem, all you can to is try different things and see what things you can reasonably eliminate as possible causes.

Good Luck, and do let us know how Remington deals with you over the issue.

 

[musicmatty]

Going to ask a couple of Captn Obvious questions, just to get them out of the way.

I see two different lengths of shells in the pic, you 870 has a 3in chamber, right??

Second, you say ejection, so extraction is ok, right??

Has anyone else shot the gun and if so did they have the issue??

1) Yes it’s chambered in 2 3/4 -3in shells.
2) Yes it extracts the shells out from the chamber but the shells get hung up ejecting out the side.
3) tThree of us took turns with this firearm and We all experienced the same problem.
4) Thankfully the action on this 870 was not stiff to begin with.. We put approximately 110 rounds through this 870 and this problem persisted from start to finish.

 

[mehavey]

"... it extracts the shells out from the chamber
but the shells get hung up ejecting out the side."

It does this with both 2-3/4 and 3" shells?
If so -- and you're equally sure it has a 3" chamber -- it sounds like the ejector.

> Remington 870 ejector or ejector spring can be easily broken.
> Sometimes you can use shotgun for years and shoot thousands of rounds
> and everything will be ok but sometimes this can happen to almost new shotgun.
>
> Broken ejector or ejector spring is not a part that you can easily change
> without tools. You can have a gunsmith do this repair

 

[musicmatty]

[
> Remington 870 ejector or ejector spring can be easily broken.
> Sometimes you can use shotgun for years and shoot thousands of rounds
> and everything will be ok but sometimes this can happen to almost new shotgun./B]

As I said in my original post, this problem presented itself immediately on the first outing. The gun was sent back to Remington where they had it for one month and came back exhibiting the same issue.

 

[jmr40]

Those are both 2 3/4" shells. The 2 3/4" length is how long they are AFTER you fire them and the crimp opens, most are closer to 2 1/2" before firing. Different manufacturers use different crimps with slightly different unfired lengths. The one on the left is obviously different.

All 870's made for at least 30 years are chambered for both 2 3/4" and 3" shells.

The Winchester ammo with the steel base is a cheap load that is known to cause problems in some guns. The black buckshot load appears to be a brand I've never seen.

I'm guessing this is partly operator error and partly a new gun that needs to be broken in. It sounds like you're not operating the action vigorously enough and combined with a new gun are getting hangups.

I'd also try some different loads. Once broken in the loads you have may start to work. I'd also give the chamber a good cleaning and lubricate everything.

To help break-in the gun faster sit down on the couch and watch an episode of Gunsmoke or whatever show you enjoy. And work the action a few thousand times during the show. Repeat as necessary.

FWIW I bought a new20 ga 870 in February. It was a little stiff when new and needed a little break-in. But has otherwise run perfectly. The new 870's are an improvement over the ones made in the last 5 years or so.

 

[44 AMP]

1) Yes it’s chambered in 2 3/4 -3in shells.
2) Yes it extracts the shells out from the chamber but the shells get hung up ejecting out the side.
3) tThree of us took turns with this firearm and We all experienced the same problem.
4) Thankfully the action on this 870 was not stiff to begin with.. We put approximately 110 rounds through this 870 and this problem persisted from start to finish.

Thank you for that information, it rules out some things.

TO be clear, when a shell "hangs up" in ejection, we're talking about a fired case being stuck, partway inside and part way outside of the action, right?

The gun is jammed until you pluck out the fired case with your fingers, right??
OR is it a case of the fired case does not fully clear the action, but isn't "stuck" so that closing the bolt pushes it out and feeds a fresh round normally?? Either is possible, one is a serious malfunction, the other is an irritation, since the gun still functions.

Sounds like a problem with the ejector or its spring, or both. Rem SHOULD have found this.

Gun is new, still under warranty, if this is what it seems to be, its defective part or workmanship and should be covered under the warranty.

Remington SHOULD either A) repair your gun, B) replace your gun with a new one, same model (and fully functional) or C) keep the gun and refund your purchase price (and any additional expenses).

Good Luck, and don't give up. Remain calm, don't bluster or threaten (for now, anyway). IF you don't get satsifaction, go up the food chain at REM, make your issue known to higher levels of management. Eventually you should find someone who realizes that whatever "saving" Rem made by not treating you properly was false economy and they will lose more in bad press and possible legal fees if you have to pursue it further.

This is not a matter of "cheap gun, not worth the hassle" its a matter of principle now.

Or, it would be, for me, anyway.

 

[musicmatty]

Thank you for that information, it rules out some things.

TO be clear, when a shell "hangs up" in ejection, we're talking about a fired case being stuck, partway inside and part way outside of the action, right?

This is 100% correct. Each and every time it’s loaded to capacity with five shells in the tube, at least two or three if not more always get hung up exiting.

***. I received a follow up email from RemArms and they will be sending me a shipping label for the gun to go back for a second repair. ***

I will keep everyone posted on how this plays out. Customer service is everything and Remington should be bending over backwards with everything that they have been through. To all those considering a purchase, I would put the brakes on until this plays out.

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

***. I received a follow up email from RemArms and they will be sending me a shipping label for the gun to go back for a second repair. ***

Yeah, I feel your pain. I had a malfunctioning Colt Combat Commander. It went back to Colt several times and they replaced some parts but the malfunction persisted.

Finally, after some online advice from gun forum buddies, I took a dremel tool to the gun and it's worked fine ever since. But, I'll never trust it for CCW. It's just a range toy.

Good luck. Keep us posted. BTW, I have two 870s myself. One is an old school, made in USA Wingmaster. Fine gun.

The other is an 870 Express. It's a budget version of the 870. I bought it around 20 years ago and replaced the stock with a Knoxx recoil reducing stock. I dumped the 18 inch HD barrel and put on a Remington 870 matte barrel with interchangeable chokes and rifle sights.

I also replaced the MIM extractor with a Volquartsen extractor. It's an easy fix and is on sale at MidwayUSA. I also put a Wilson jumbo head safety and a GG&G Enhanced Low Drag Magazine Follower.

The Remington mag follower is cheap plastic and is a weak link in the gun according to gun forum gunners. It's also an easy fix.

 

[MTT TL]

It's disappointing to hear about this. With more than 11,000,000 made I'd just scrounge an old one up at gun/pawn shop and refinish it. In fact I did that very thing with a late 50s model that someone had cut the barrel down to 18.5". They would probably give you a good deal on the trade in.

 

[Pahoo]

Historical search !!!

TO be clear, when a shell "hangs up" in ejection, we're talking about a fired case being stuck, partway inside and part way outside of the action, right?

Hold up a minute; Isn't there a fairly recent thread that addressed this problem with the "newer" Expresses?

I believe it was resolved by smoothing up, some of hte rough radial ridges on the inner wall of the chamber?

musicmatty
Suggest you do a historical search; just might have a solution for you ...

Be Safe !!!

 

[mehavey]

....smoothing up, some of the rough radial ridges on the inner wall of the chamber?

That addresses extraction, not ejection as the OP describes.

For extraction, see https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6652515&postcount=13.

Ejection of the spent hull out the port is another issue.


.

 

[musicmatty]

I would like to thank everyone for responding and chiming in! It’s always a good idea to get the word out…exchange ideas and share information.

Some here have made suggestions of an aftermarket ejection clip and/or smoothing out rough edges inside the chamber area. No doubt all that’s a great idea and most likely would work. However, this is a new American firearm right out of the box and it’s having functional issues. I don’t think a customer should have to do anything other than return this firearm back to the manufacturer hoping they could resolve the issue without me having to search aftermarket parts and additional maintenance on my end to make it function properly.

The day a new American firearm has to be modified out of the box in order to work properly, is the day we lose sense of who we are as Americans and the pride in our craftsmanship in my opinion.

It's disappointing to hear about this. With more than 11,000,000 made I'd just scrounge an old one up at gun/pawn shop and refinish it.

I’m all about giving a used gun that is in great condition, a new home. In fact, all four of my pre 2006 Winchester model 1300s, were found used in gun shops that I was just browsing in over recent years.

 

[44 AMP]

I get the point, I think. It's not about what it takes to fix the problem, but about WHO should fix the problem, and that is Remington. Its a new gun under warranty, its Remington's responsibility to make it right.

Since they didn't fix it the first time, they are doing the right thing sending the shipping tag so they can try again, and hopefully get it right. This IS Rem doing the right thing. Not as fast or as smoothly as one would like, but they aren't blowing you off, they're trying, and so should be given the good faith chance.

You might take into account all the crap that has happened with the (to me) intentional destruction of Remington by international financiers for their own profit. Not going into the details of that here, I only want to point out that I think the people operating Rem are mostly not the long experienced, skilled folks they were in Rem's heyday.

A few points to keep in mind, and hopefully prevent unwarranted ire, one is that the bigger the shop /business, the more volume they deal inand even a big outfit may not have many people on trouble shoot and repair warranty work. SO turn around time can vary, even when it may be a simple quick fix, it can take time for them to get to it.

People get spun up, over the wait time, but in most cases, they simply don't realize how things work. No, I wouldn't be HAPPY having to wait a month or more but I understand that the 83 guns ahead of mine had to get fixed first.

Small shops can often do fast turnarounds, some will even pull people off production to do it. Often, but not always.

Another thing few consumers realize is that their problem with their gun is TWO problems for the factory. First is your gun's problem, and the second is the problem that let the gun go out the door with a problem. And the factory needs to ID and fix BOTH of them. And that's something that's often easier for a smaller operation than a large one.

Point here is that Remington is trying to do the right thing for the OP. They may not be doing it was fast or as well as one might wish, but they are doing it (so far anyway) so lets see how it ends up.

 

[L-2]

Here's some comments and my experience with some warranty work over the years.
I haven't had any warranty issues with my three, pre-Remarms, shotguns, but I did have a shell latch break on my 11-87P.

I brought that shotgun to a local shop and it ended up being ~month (maybe it was 2 months) as I recall. This was back when parts, like the shell latch, could be bought via Brownells.com.

-The shop has to get around to looking at the gun. That may take ~week to get to it.
-Then the needed part needs to be ordered and received; another week.
-Then, once the part is received, the gun can be fixed. Allow another 2 weeks as there are other jobs which might be ahead of me. (Again, maybe it was 2 months total, now that I think about it.)

I also had a trigger system issue whereas when manually cycling the bolt to initially chamber a round; the round didn't automatically trip the bolt release to chamber that round. I had to manually depress the bolt release to chamber that round; a 2-step process which wasn't the way m 11-87 initially behaved. Otherwise, the following rounds do automatically chamber when firing the gun; so the shop didn't quite understand there was actually a problem and left that issue alone.

Back then, I think the easiest fix was to replace the entire trigger mechanism which would have been ~$200 for the assembly. I decided to leave it alone and that's the way my 11-87P still works to this day. Looking at that assembly, I wouldn't know if there's some part or spring in there to file, fit, or replace. I did substitute in a friend's trigger assembly and it did once again begin chambering that first round automatically, but I had to give that trigger assembly back to the friend.

My other story was an actual warranty issue with Springfield-Armory for one of my AR15 rifles. This took the entire 6 weeks as they'd estimated.
-Estimate a week in return shipping for a long-gun; again, 1 week.

-4 weeks at Springfield's Geneseo, IL factory. Receive the gun; get to looking at the gun; test fire; diagnose; fix; test fire again. This fix involved re-reaming the barrel's chamber and replacing the bolt assembly to fix the intermittent problem, but happening often (~7-10%), spent casings becoming stuck in the chamber, sometimes with the extractor ripping off the case rim.

This took me a year or two to figure out there was a problem as I first thought I just had two brands, a case-each, of bad ammo (2000 rounds). Understand each malfunction of this type involved dropping a cleaning rod down the muzzle to knock out spent casing whlle holding the bolt to the rear with my other hand. If I'd merely locked the bolt back, the rod, freeing-the-spent-casing would trip the bolt jamming the casing back into the chamber.

-Then another week to ship back to me IL to NV, using whatever ground service via UPS.

I thought Springfield would just replace the entire barrel or upper, but I suppose they don't want to waste parts if they don't have to. I called back to inquire about why the bolt assembly was replaced to, but it's Springfield's policy to not tell a customer why something was replaced other than that's what they did; therefore unknown if the bolt assembly or any part was out-of-spec, worn, or damaged.

While the Springfield AR15 was away for that 6 weeks, I'd then bought a Bravo Company Manufacturing (aka BCM) AR15 which ran 100%. It doesn't hurt to have two AR15s now working 100%

I've other warranty/repair stories. The point is, things take time. Sometimes a company needs more than one chance at fixing something. Other times, I've been too disappointed or lost confidence with a firearm even after repair, and just sold it off once it was repaired and returned.

Other brands which needed warranty/repair issues: Glock, Kimber, Guncrafter Industries, Doublestar, SIG, Smith & Wesson, Ruger, and Colt. Five of the nine brands dealt with 1911-issues