Did I make a 40?

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chris in va

New member
On a whim I bought the Lee 160 grain 45acp mold. With 6.2gr of Universal, it seems to be hustling at over 1100fps according to my manual, well within 40S&W range.

So my question, other than a bit more capacity, why would someone get a 40 gun when they can crank up a 45 to similar performance?

BTW I like the quicker, snappy feel these bullets give, like a hefty 9mm.
Interesting.
 
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Ethan.G

New member
Interesting, i usually talk to people who like the 45 over the 40 because its sub sonic and has that slow push recoil, never heard of someone buying a 45 and amping it like that to get a recoil they like.

real reason for posting, you mentioned fast recoil, ever tried a .357 Sig? Real snappy recoil, i loved it
 
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NWPilgrim

New member
You haven't discovered anything new. You are comparing apples to oranges here. A 160 gr .451" bullet has less sectional density than a 165 gr or even 155 gr .400" bullet. It has more frontal area for the same weight, therefore less sectional density.

Sectional density matters in terms of penetration and strength of the bullet to remain intact. In other words, you are not likely to get the same terminal performance. The higher the velocity the more sectional density matters.

You could use a stronger constructed bullet such as bonded or all copper bullet to increase the strength, but so could the .40 be used with a much faster 135 gr bullet.

If you compare bullets of the same construction and sectional density then the .40 will always be as fast or faster. For instance the 180 gr .40 at 950 fps and 230 gr .45ACP at 850 fps. Anything you can do to the .45 to increase velocity you can do to the .40 as well.

With premium HP bonded or all copper bullets the 9mm is nearly on par in terminal performance with the .40 and .45 and you get more bullets per mag in the same size or smaller gun. With FMJ or cheaper HP bullets then the .45 and .40 have some advantage by starting out bigger.
 
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oneoldsap

New member
The .45 ACP was bred to be a plowhorse not a racehorse . In a gunfight , velocity isn't nessessarily your friend . I'd rather shoot the big bullet (230) and knock my adversary to the ground , than zip bullets through him and have him stand there and keep shooting at me ! If I'm not carrying a 45 , I'm not as comfortable as I could be , but sometimes it's just too darned bulky .
 
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flashhole

New member
I bought my 40 because I liked the way it fit my hand. The 45's were not overly friendly in the ergonomics department. I also learned how to use my 40. Not a bit of concern about stopping power.
 
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3kgt2nv

New member
alot of people will use the quantity of rounds / mag issue as well.

i own a mix of everything and i have to say i prefer a 45 to a 40 and i carry an extra mag.

if you dont end / flee / avoid the conflict with 8 shots the next 8 prob will not either.
 
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NWPilgrim

New member
You could just as easily say:

"The bottom line is that, choosing between two bullets based purely on velocity, is as foolish as choosing a bullet based on the colour of the packaging."

OR

"The bottom line is that, choosing between two bullets based purely on frontal area, is as foolish as choosing a bullet based on the colour of the packaging."

OR

"The bottom line is that, choosing between two bullets based purely on weight, is as foolish as choosing a bullet based on the colour of the packaging."

OR

"The bottom line is that, choosing between two bullets based purely on out of context references, is as foolish as choosing a bullet based on the colour of the packaging."
 
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dlb0412

New member
No you didnt make a .40. A 135 grain .40 has more sectional density then your .45 load and you can get 1400 fps from the .40 with a 4 inch barrel. So the .40 will penetrate better do more damage from hydrostatic shock and does it in a smaller package that holds more ammo.
 
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dacaur

New member
So my question, other than a bit more capacity, why would someone get a 40 gun when they can crank up a 45 to similar performance?
Click to expand...

How was the accuracy? My guess is not too great. And reliability with feeding? Your gun might have digested them, but I bet there are plenty out there that wouldnt...

The other problem I see, you 160gr bullet is going to be short and fat, with a low BC, vs the same weight in a .40 which will have a higher BC, so better trajectory.... Of course that wont matter much at 15 yards, but if you want to reach out, its going to make a difference.

And as for "a bit more capacity".... I dont see many 15+ round capacity .45's.... the difference between 8 and 15 seems to me more than "a bit" :D

Still, give me a .45.... :D
 
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Kawabuggy

New member
You want .40 velocity with a 45ACP? Easy. Nosler 185 Grain Jacketed hollow points, and a healthy dose of Blue Dot. I won't post a specific number of grains here, other than to say start low-9 grains-and work your way up slowly watching for signs of pressure. You may find at the starting load that you have unburned powder coming out of the barrel. That is a sign that you need to continue increasing your powder charge. Once you hit the "sweet spot" you will no longer have unburned powder coming out of the barrel, and instead have about a 1 foot fire ball, and you will exceed .40 velocities. You will also have some snappy recoil.

Be forewarned that your guns action may suffer an abbreviated life due to extreme hammering.

Great for a self defense load, or shooting at night.

Much better powder choices available, but it is FUN playing with Blue Dot.
 
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chris in va

New member
Don't get me wrong guys, I was just curious to find out if the 160gr would equal 40 characteristics.

They're quite accurate actually. Still futzing around with oal and feeding in my CZ. Short leade and all.
 
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NWPilgrim

New member
Which characteristics of the .40? Just velocity? Not hard for a .45 to get to .40 range of velocities if you make the bullet light enough.

If you are talking about terminal performance then you might consider there is a reason no LE dept or agency uses a 160 gr .45ACP load, while hundreds use a 155 or 165 gr load in .40S&W.

It isn't magic to use a super light-weight-for-caliber bullet to get higher velocity, but then you have to ask what is it good for?
 
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excelerater

Moderator
45s can be made hot
1250FPS on some 185g bullets ......and snappy or recoil is subjective
9MMs can be made way snappier than a 45

point of thread? I got lost
 
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Jimro

New member
Anyone who talks about "hydrostatic shock" when referring to pistol calibers knows very little about terminal ballistics.

Comparing "performance" between the 40, 45, and 9mm is largely useless, with appropriate bullets they work as intended. Every cartridge is a tradeoff in size, pressure, recoil, and ballistics.

Jimro
 
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Sport45

New member
If you really want to make a .40 out of your 1911 just buy a .400 Cor-Bon barrel and a 22+ lb recoil spring. Actually that will be more like making a 10mm.:D

I tried it and it's fun for a while. Now all my 1911's are back in their original .45acp configuration.
 
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