DHS - Dept. of Homeland Security handgun contract: Sigarms, Heckler & Koch

G

Gonzo_308

New member
Department Of Homeland Security Awards Handgun Contracts

For Immediate Release
Press Office
Contact 202-282-8010
August 24, 2004

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security announced the award of two contracts today for handguns for all organizational elements within the department, including U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, the Transportation Security Administration, the U.S. Coast Guard and the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center.

SIGARMS Incorporated and Heckler & Koch, Incorporated each received a contract award with a maximum quantity of 65,000 pistols that may be purchased over the next five years. SIGARMS Incorporated, a small business located in Exeter, New Hampshire, received a $23.7 million contract for 9 x 19 mm and .40 caliber pistols. Heckler & Koch, a large business located in Sterling, Virginia, received a $26.2 million contract for 9 x 19 mm, .40, and .357 caliber pistols.

The two contracts will enable DHS personnel to acquire handguns in three popular law enforcement calibers and a variety of sizes. These contracts represent the results of the department’s Strategic Sourcing Program that is designed to optimize cross-departmental acquisitions through collaboration of agency technical and acquisition experts. The Weapons and Ammunition Commodity Council, part of the strategic sourcing program, identifies and consolidates emerging firearms and ammunition requirements for all Homeland Security components. As part of this effort, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) released a Request for Proposals in February 2004 for the procurement of handguns. The ICE National Firearms and Tactical Training Unit led the ensuing evaluation.

“This type of multiple contract award will provide the government the flexibility it needs to enable the DHS entities to address their diverse operational missions, while still maximizing logistical efficiencies found through standardization,” said Thomas Trotto, Director of the ICE National Firearms and Tactical Training Unit.

The technical evaluation of the proposals included a comprehensive handgun test protocol involving a rigorous battery of environmental, reliability, durability, and other tests. Approximately three million rounds of ammunition were fired through 690 handguns of 46 different models during the testing, which took almost four months to complete. Aside from the actual live firing, additional testing was conducted through laboratory analysis and armory inspections. In all, each model was evaluated against more than 50 characteristics before arriving at a technical rating. This data was used in conjunction with past performance and pricing information to select the winning contractors.

The Homeland Security Weapons and Ammunition Commodity Council continues to analyze the department’s requirements for weapons, ammunition, and other officer safety products to identify additional strategic sourcing opportunities.

###

I'm thinkning this means there will be a dip in civilian production while the two companies get their initial production requierments together. :(

Please also note that the G word isn't used once in this press release. ;)

Perhaps DHS wasn't impressed with their marketing hype? :rolleyes:

(Sorry, couldn't help it) :D
 
M

mete

New member
Designed to optimize acquisitions ?? Really ? three different cartridges ? Typical gov't stupidity. ...BTW HS now has a rule where if you work for them and say something they don't like {criticism etc} they can fire you immediately without recourse !!!
 
J

juliet charley

New member
Not only no Glocks, but it also means Glock (and Beretta) both lost major federal contracts--Glock had previously supplied weapons for the Customs Service (and Beretta for the INS/BP). Both companies are out on their ear--but then Glock has never fared well in actual pistol trials.
 
J

juliet charley

New member
I thought it was strange too. Of course, I don't really see any reason at all to even include the 357 SIG the in contract. I guess somebody with some "pull" wanted it (and wanted it in a HK).

If the folks over at SIG Forum have it right, there will be a choice of three different SIG pistols: P226DAK, P229DAK and P239DAO (and of course in two different calibres). I haven't heard what the HK choice(s) would be--the USPc I imagine (and maybe the USP)?

Anyway, it is kind of typical government simplification: three different calibres, at least four (assuming only one HK model) different handguns and at least two (possibly three) different operating systems: DAK and DAO (yes, the DAK is a DAO system but it is considerably different from SIG's current DAO system that will be offered on the P239). Rangemaster and armourers are going to love it (not to mention procurement).
 
O

OBIWAN

New member
"but then Glock has never fared well in actual pistol trials"

Actually they do quite well in trials where the deck is not stacked aginst them

IE: requiring a second strike capability etc.


I think it is crazy to have 3 different calibers, 5-6 platforms....just stocking all the different mags would be a huge headache

I can only hope that individual departments will be somewhat more homogeneous
 
H

Handy

Moderator
Given the output capacity of the various production lines, allowing multiple models might have been a move to speed production and delivery. Instead of just pushing just the 228 line full speed, for instance.
 
J

juliet charley

New member
Actually, it's been impression the only time Glock does well in trials is when the deck is stacked in their favour. They've never done very in head to head competitions. Glock do often win on the basis of the low bid.
 
W

warhammer357

Moderator
Overrated Dept. of Homeland Security contract

Hey guys,
remember the thread on what was the most overated handguns around?
LOL....
Check out this press release...

Press Releases
Department Of Homeland Security Awards Handgun Contracts

For Immediate Release
Press Office
Contact 202-282-8010
August 24, 2004

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security announced the award of two contracts today for handguns for all organizational elements within the department, including U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, U.S. Customs and Border Protection, the Transportation Security Administration, the U.S. Coast Guard and the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center.

SIGARMS Incorporated and Heckler & Koch, Incorporated each received a contract award with a maximum quantity of 65,000 pistols that may be purchased over the next five years. *SIGARMS Incorporated, a small business located in Exeter, New Hampshire, received a $23.7 million contract for 9 x 19 mm and .40 caliber pistols. Heckler & Koch, a large business located in Sterling, Virginia, received a $26.2 million contract for 9 x 19 mm, .40, and .357 caliber pistols.

The two contracts will enable DHS personnel to acquire handguns in three popular law enforcement calibers and a variety of sizes. These contracts represent the results of the department’s Strategic Sourcing Program that is designed to optimize cross-departmental acquisitions through collaboration of agency technical and acquisition experts. The Weapons and Ammunition Commodity Council, part of the strategic sourcing program, identifies and consolidates emerging firearms and ammunition requirements for all Homeland Security components. As part of this effort, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) released a Request for Proposals in February 2004 for the procurement of handguns. The ICE National Firearms and Tactical Training Unit led the ensuing evaluation.

“This type of multiple contract award will provide the government the flexibility it needs to enable the DHS entities to address their diverse operational missions, while still maximizing logistical efficiencies found through standardization,” said Thomas Trotto, Director of the ICE National Firearms and Tactical Training Unit.

The technical evaluation of the proposals included a comprehensive handgun test protocol involving a rigorous battery of environmental, reliability, durability, and other tests. Approximately three million rounds of ammunition were fired through 690 handguns of 46 different models during the testing, which took almost four months to complete. Aside from the actual live firing, additional testing was conducted through laboratory analysis and armory inspections. In all, each model was evaluated against more than 50 characteristics before arriving at a technical rating. This data was used in conjunction with past performance and pricing information to select the winning contractors. *

The Homeland Security Weapons and Ammunition Commodity Council continues to analyze the department’s requirements for weapons, ammunition, and other officer safety products to identify additional strategic sourcing opportunities.
 
J

juliet charley

New member
Neither of the manufacurers selected (SIGArms or HK) were really pegged as being particularly overrated in the poll.

The clear winner of the "Overrated Poll" was Glock by a margin of three to one.

Looks like Glock won the TFL "Overrated Poll," and lost when it came to the DHS "Comprehensive Handgun Test Protocol" (but Glock has never really done well in competitive pistol trials).
 
I

IanS

New member
Glocks have done better in certain trials (FBI). H&K's have done better in certain trials. SIG's have done better in certain trials. And 1911's have done better in certain trials. So much is determined by politics and the biases of those on the "committee". Both of the above posters sound like the kind of people on some of these "commitees". And yeah, I kinda like the fact when Gov't agencies are trying to get the most bang for the buck. All of these guns have been deemed acceptable as reliable and durable weapons by various well respected Law Enforcement organizations. And some people just will not admit it.


Give me a break. Glocks (or the other brands I mentioned) may not be the "best" but trying overstate the fact by implying they're "just low bid" with no other virtues just isn't working. Maybe for some impressionable newbie who doesn't know jack but most experienced gunners who've owned and shot them know they're not JUST LOW BID GUNS. Its funny whenever I see people go out of their way to trash talk what are otherwise fine guns for duty use by LEO's. :rolleyes:
 
F

FirstFreedom

Moderator
No, they're not JUST low bids guns. But they nevertheless still ARE the most overrated. Anyone know, of all the pistol trials in the last 30 years, which one or ones was or were the LEAST politically influenced - the most accurately & thoroughly DOCUMENTED trial? (I don't know - I'm asking).
 
H

Handy

Moderator
FF,

The XM9 trial(s) were very thorough and documented. The political side of it is guesswork. No one has ever found a document that suggests the Beretta=Italian Air Bases connection actually exists.

Many truly excellent guns did not make it through those trials. And the ones that did pass enjoy a worldwide reputation and are widely used in quite a few modern militaries. But they weren't being tested against any of the current crop of polymer guns now available, and I doubt there has been as exhaustive a trial since. The German P8 trials only really looked at German guns, for instance.
 
I

ISP2605

Moderator
I was part of the testing when we were getting ready to transition in 1998. After months of testing by numerous people the top 3 rated was SIG, S&W, and then Glock, in that order. Bids went to all 3 for 2500 guns. Glock came in at just a bit over $250K. S&W was about double Glock and SIG was about double S&W.
 
G

Greg Bell

New member
Give me a break. Glocks (or the other brands I mentioned) may not be the "best" but trying overstate the fact by implying they're "just low bid" with no other virtues just isn't working. Maybe for some impressionable newbie who doesn't know jack but most experienced gunners who've owned and shot them know they're not JUST LOW BID GUNS. Its funny whenever I see people go out of their way to trash talk what are otherwise fine guns for duty use by LEO's.
Click to expand...

I agree. I have owned and shot them and I think that they are not just low bid guns--they are also unsafe and have horrible triggers. :p
 
I

IanS

New member
Well, if the cost of procurement for Glocks is about half the price of SIGs or S&Ws then for all the people who think Glocks are "overrated" wouldn't that at least be considered a "fair price"?

Mr. Greg Bell,

"Horrible triggers" Yes. But I still shoot them about as badly as other guns including 1911's and SIG's :p

"Unsafe" NO. I keep my finger off the trigger when I'm not shooting it. It works for me and it could work for you. ;)
 
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J

juliet charley

New member
Glocks have done better in certain trials (FBI).
Click to expand...
The FBI's approval of the Glock was not exactly based on a competitive trial--and they failed miserably when first evaluated. Some of the major competitive trials in which the Glock did not fare too well in include the CHP trials (Glock failed to complete the trials), OSP (failed to complete), ISP (third place finish--but won on low bid).
 
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