Detroit Mob robs, beats motorist, assaults pedestrians

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BillCA

New member
The news story is here:
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/16461498/detail.html

See Video Here

WARREN, Mich. -- Three teenagers accused of randomly beating innocent people in Mount Clemens faced a Judge Friday. Police arrested a 16, 14, and 18 year old, all from Clinton Township.

Police said they were among 20 to 30 people who attacked and robbed a motorist Saturday night may also be responsible for several other violent crimes that took place the same day.

Four people were taken into custody earlier this week for questioning after a motorist was beaten unconscious and left with a fractured skull.

Police said the incident took place when Andy Kauffman, 29, and his wife, Angelina, were driving on North River Road when more than two dozen men wearing ball caps and baggy shorts spread out across the street and blocked traffic.

Kauffman tried to drive past them and someone threw a brick in his window. Kauffman stopped his car and got out to see what happened.

"At that point at least 12 of the subjects jumped on him, beating and kicking him several times to the point where he was unconscious," Macomb County Sheriff Mark Hackel said. "A second man then got out of the car and also was attacked, but not nearly as bad as the first individual."

A short time later, police were called to a gas station nearby for a fight. The mob attacked two men in downtown Mount Clemens. One man ran to Desperado's bar to find safety, while the other man ran to a nearby gas station.

The victim at the gas station was attacked by the mob, but he was not seriously injured, police said.

The victim told local 4 he believes the attack was random because he did not know any of the attackers.

Police said there were several incidents within a few hours and they fear the same group of attackers was involved. A group of people were attacked at a nearby carnival before the motorists was beaten.
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I'm sure we'll have the Zombie theory show up, but this is one reason why high-cap magazines are a good thing.

Question for the legal beagles around here... if running from a mob of 12-20 people, who are pursuing you, even if they are unarmed, at what point does it become legal to use lethal force to defend yourself?
 
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cool hand luke 22:36

New member
I don't think there is any State that flat out prohibits the use of lethal force in self-defense.

Those with the weakest legal scheme, i.e., those that impose a duty to retreat, generally recognize that situations exist where retreat isn't an option.

Not meant as legal advice:

So, at a minimum, the "point" at which the use of lethal force might be considered lawful by a Grand Jury would be the point at which a reasonable person would have felt at great risk of death or serious injury from an assailant, and where the option to retreat didn't exist for some reason.
 
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longcoldwinter

New member
God detroit is a cesspool.

I wonder in a situation like that if having a gun would even help, depends on the will of mob i guess, shoot a couple and hope like hell the rest run. Staying in your car and making a run for it would be the best option I think.
 
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Rant Casey

New member
The day a mob attacks me is the day I kill an entire mob. In a situation where a group of people are going to attack me I wouldn't be too worried about the law, id be worried about not dying. Unarmed or not, a mob of any kind is a lethal threat.
 
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Alleykat

Moderator
A brief study of the correlation between the demographics of the DemocRATic urban base and crime statistics, anyone?:eek:
 
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Sgt.Fathead

Moderator
My weapon of choice at that point is my 5000+ pound truck. But I'd never be in the area to start with. My sympathies to those who live in cities; a whole new set of defensive scenarios ensue, a whole new form of criminal lurks.
 
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thrgunsmith

New member
Andy Kaufman?? wow!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzl0O8rsgAM&feature=related
Andy Kauffman, 29, and his wife, Angelina
Click to expand...

But seriously folks, the guy had an excellent weapon that kills more people then guns.
He wasn't prepared to use it.

I feel unarmed when I carry my 5 shot snubbie, but then again predators might go elsewhere when shot at.
Still I feel much better with an extra 15 mag besides the one in the gun.
 
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dresden8

New member
Kauffman tried to drive past them and someone threw a brick in his window. Kauffman stopped his car and got out to see what happened.
Click to expand...

That really is pride messing with your head, get the hell out of there!
 
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hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
Funny!!! i am listening to some "THUG RAP" (I do this on rare occasion) and read this thread! I lived in Michigan during childhood. If my mom woulda had to go to Detroit or outskirts she would have been illegally packin' a piece.
Fast forward to when I was 20... I built (yep I really did) a super sharp single axle dump truck. I delivered for the decorative stone dealer. I made good dough. But some times I had to go thru the rough crack dealin' areas to deliver my load. I carried my 20ga 500 in the back window. I had decided NEVER to stop as it might be a ploy to get me jacked. One day a typical "slinger" was out in my lane flaggin at me as if I was a potential customer... I popped it down a couple gears and "hogged" on the fuel pump to let him know I was surely not slowing down... He dove for the sidewalk but I clipped his lower legs with my 18 inch deep chrome bumper and spun him on off the road... He shook it off as I watched in the mirror... NO ONE MAKES ME STOP IN A BAD PLACE!!!
Brent
 
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shortwave

New member
Didn`t have time to post alot in previous posting. 2 wks. ago I sit in a meeting held by local LEO and the subject was "When does an employee have the right to defend themselves against a violent customer". Meeting was called by a company that employs mostly truck and delivery drivers. Seems as an irrate citizen was mad at driver, followed truck in car to busy intersection with traffic light. Truck was at red-light, lady jumped out of car and ran to front of truck. Standing in front of truck pointing a 9mm at driver through windshield. Bottom line is, if your in a vehicle, assailants are on foot and your not blocked in, do what you have to do to leave. Kauffman`s mistake was stopping car. There`s no real legal answer as to exactly what to do. What you do have to remember is you have to justify YOUR actions. You have the right to defend yourself to what ever extent neccessary to stop attack. You just have to convince a jury that your actions where warranted:eek:. Sometimes thats a crapshoot but at least your alive;).
 
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applesanity

New member
Let me get this straignt.


1. A driver is driving toward a group of people. They may or may not look threatening (I have no idea, I wasn't there) Baggy shorts?

2. Now they are blocking traffic. Threatening or otherwise, drivers shouldn't drive through people who are blocking traffic.

3. The driver tries to drive past them. Reasonable move. Another, more reasonable move: Do a 3-point turn and get the hell outta there.

4. Someone throws a brick through the window. Ouch that's gonna cost a bit of repair money.

5. The driver stops. With a woman (his wife) in the car. Next to a mob. They seem to be out for blood.

My conclusion: the driver is an idiot.

All this talk over, "THAT'S WHY WE NEED HI-CAP MAGS" is pure gun nut "from my cold dead hands" bull crap.

The mob didn't jump the driver while he was parked between cars waiting for a green light. He wasn't trapped. From the article, it sounds like the driver had advanced warning of imminent danger.

I'm not excusing the actions of the mob. I am not going to excuse the idiocy of the driver, either.
 
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Derius_T

New member
First of all, to see this mob, acting violently, (ie throwing brick) then to GET OUT OF YOUR CAR, hell he almost deserves the beating he got for being that ignorant.

That said, best case would be to make sure doors are securely locked, and drive away. If the mob surrounds your car, blocks you, or attempts to tip or enter your car, FLOOR IT. Your life is in danger at that point, and they best move, or sorry, they become speed bumps. NO ONE is dragging me out of a car I am still in control of, unless they can do it at the highest speed I can manage. At that point, the vehicle is your only safe means of retreat. USE IT. Afraid to run over a few? Well, take your beating then, then watch your wife take hers, or worse because you are an idiot or a coward.

If your car is blocked and unable to move, lets hope you are armed sufficiently to neutralize the current threat.
 
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Tom2

New member
Yea can you imagine, even if you knew they were a riotus mob, that they had demonstrated an imminent threat to you of serious danger, and you ran over some of them trying to escape to not be bushwacked like other drivers, the press would write you up as DRIVER RUNS DOWN CHILDREN, FLEES SCENE and even if witnesses back you up, the public damage done by the press would probably cost you mega millions in at least civil suits? Dang. I think you can drive a loop around Detr. without going in, can't you :confused:
 
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BillCA

New member
I'll grant you that the driver made a stupid (not ignorant) decision to stop and exit his car. It may be that the group spread out in the middle of a block, negating the driver's ability to avoid them. No idea if the road is a divided highway or not. Regardless, you have a 3,000 to 6,000 pound blunt instrument you can use against a violent mob. You might also be able to use that special setting on the gearshift - the one marked "R" for retreat.

But my question was geared towards the two pedestrians who are suddenly faced with a mob and said mob decides to go after them.

I know that I would not be able to outrun anyone in their 20's or younger. I also know that a gang liked that can inflict some seriously life-changing injuries in seconds.

I also know that no one in a group wants to be the first man shot. There's no big rush to be second, either.
 
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Yellowfin

New member
^ But being where we are, they know the chances of that happening while in a public area are something along the lines of a plane piloted by Elvis crashing into them. Thanks to one Laurie Smith, mobs of angry thugs can do whatever they please to anyone they see without any fear of good people doing anything about it. :( :mad:
 
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