Demonizing Christians

[whitebear]

Looks like those wacky Democrats are at it again...

From The Washington Times, 01/02/2002:

Democrats, in the name of tolerance, plan to demonize conservative Christians as being like the Taliban, according to an article in Newsweek.

The rest of the story can be found here:
http://www.washtimes.com/national/inpolitics.htm

 

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

Yet we still hold our vision of a better world, one where government protects the right to live and speak freely.

I always thought that was OUR job, and our right, not the gubmint's.

But of course, it's Liberals, so what could you expect.

Democrats: Open mouth, insert foot.

 

[bullet44]

This has been on going for years both in our
government and public schools, it has caused
many of the problems we have in society.!!!

 

[Mike in VA]

"Conservative Christians" will play the victim just like everyone else when it suits them. If you challenge their agenda, 'people of faith' will bo-hoo 'Christain bashing' and would be just as oppressive as the Taliban if they thought they could get away with it. It's right hard to use Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell in the same sentence as 'tolerance' or 'open mind'. I have little use for fundamentalists, regardless of stripe, they're dangerous bigots.

 

[BigG]

Agree with MikeinVA.

 

[Oleg Volk]

Just a thought...TFL has numerous Christian members. Please avoid offending them as you comment on individuals mentioned in the original post. Painting everyone with a broad brush just doesn't make for good vibes all-around.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Oleg is right. Let's elevate the level of discourse. Threads about religion don't tend to last very long on TFL and this is why.

There are people who consider themselves Christians and would match or surpass the Taliban if given the chance--look at http://www.christiangallery.com and find Neal Horsley's section for an example. But then, Horsley is hardly accepted by even a large minority of Christians, is he?

 

[whitebear]

I think there is a broad spectrum of Christianity, just as in any group. I feel that there can be a considerable difference between a conservative Christian and a fundamentalist Christian. While I was raised as a very conservative Christian, I no longer attend services. However, that upbringing did give me a strong sense of right and wrong and the accompanying moral values.

My point in posting this item in the first place was to express my displeasure/outrage at the Democrats planning to use the tragedy of 9/11 as yet another way to further their "anything is OK as long as you vote for us" agenda.

I know that there are many members of this board who subscribe to faiths other than Christianity, and many who live outside the United States. I think, however, that many of us who do live in the USA are politically conservative, regardless of our religious affiliations or lack thereof. It seems to me that conservative American politics shares many values with Christianity, and to some extent, an attack on Christian values can also be viewed as an attack on conservative political views.

Just my $.02. I could be wrong.

 

[BigG]

I have little use for fundamentalists, regardless of stripe, they're dangerous bigots.

That's the part I agree with: anybody who wants to impose their belief on somebody else. If somebody wants to believe something, as long as they keep it to themselves, I'm all right with that.

George

 

[Zundfolge]

It's right hard to use Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell in the same sentence as 'tolerance' or 'open mind'.

To claim that Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell are representatives of the majority of Christians is like saying BinLaden and the Taliban are representative of the majority of Moslems.

 

[BigG]

To claim that Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell are representatives of the majority of Christians is like saying BinLaden and the Taliban are representative of the majority of Moslems.

Unfortunately, Zundfolge, the reality in our media dominated culture is: those are the guys that get the ink and thus their influence is all out of proportion to their worth, regardless of what you or I personally think.

 

[Zundfolge]

Oh I agree with that BigG, I just expect a little better from my fellow TFLers who should know media bias when they see it.

 

[Mike in VA]

Allow me to clarify something - I don't think that Falwell/Robertson, et al, represent the majority of Christians. The 'religious right' isn't. Demonizing anything in the name of tolerance is oxymoronic. The lefties are starting to use the tactics of the far right, which just goes to show that if you go far enough in any one direction, you eventually come full circle, eh? Media bias? In the mainstream, isn't that redundant?

However, it is my observation that when 'they' [conservative christians] are openly challenged with a different POV or don't get thier way, they don the mantle as 'people of faith' (as if the rest of us have none) start whining about 'Christian bashing'. Tolerance is a major tenent of Christianinty, and IMO, they don't practice too much of it, hence they don't seen too Christian to me, and the analogy to the Taliban seems appropriate. They may not be representative of the majority of Christians, but they'd never admit that, and unfortunately, these cranks get publicity way out of proportion to thier significance, which to me, is that of a fart in a windstorm.

As BigG pointed out, they are most certainly entitled to their beliefs and the practice of those beliefs, but as they don't seem content to leave others alone, I have a problem with that.

Moderators, feel free, as this is neither legal, political or gun related (though 'those people' are among the reasons I own guns).

 

[ankara36]

I remember when I was a kid on summer vacation my mother would have the 700 Club on the TV. Pat Robertson came across as a narrow-minded southern redneck minister whom I would never want to have anything to do with. Neither would most of the people at my church.

With that said, I never heard Pat call for the murder of unbelievers in the name of God's work or a Holy War.

Comparing conservative/fundamentalist Christians to the Taliban is like comparing political conservatives to Nazis. The liberals always try to paint issues in black-and-white, and use scare tactics and labels to divide and conquer. This is the same tactic they are using to further their gun control agenda.

I would hope the people that post on TFL are smart enough to see this.

 

[dischord]

I gotta wonder why the Dems are bothering. The influence of the so-called fundamental Christians -- as a political force -- peaked about 15 years ago. It's kind of like attacking Abbie Hoffman in the mid 1980s.

Comparing conservative/fundamentalist Christians to the Taliban is like comparing political conservatives to Nazis.

Or the U.S. political left to Marxist-Lenninists. It cuts both ways.

Falwell, bin Laden, Bush, Hitler, Clinton and Stalin each had/has some collectivist tendencies in him. But it is illogical to draw the types of comparisons that we see from all camps.

(Then again, I'm a libertarian and don't see the political world as a 1-dimensional left-right line).

 

[ankara36]

To Dischord;

True, but the arguments made by the political left are based on illogical comparisons and rampant emotions, rather than fact and critical thinking. The left, through the media, has been commiting a sound byte war to smash the right. Through misquotes, half-truths, and flawed deductions, they are waging a war to restrict our civil liberties, especially gun ownership. I do not see this sort of thing coming from the right.

This is probably due to the fact that our society has swung way to the left after 8 years of Clinton. The side out of favor has a factual justification to bring things back to the center. The side that's in favor is trying to drive society to the extreme. Since the facts do not support either extreme (socialism or facism), the side that's in favor has to resort to emotional rhetoric and fear-mongering to push its agenda.

The reason why the right labels some modern liberals as socialist/communist is because it fits. These liberals bear little resemblance to the classical liberals of 100+ years ago, such as Dickens. Have you listened to an old JFK speech lately? Why, he sounds downright conservative by today's standards!

As far as collectivism is concerned, consider the Economic Stimulus package laying dead in the Senate. Daschle wants to alter it to give less tax breaks to corporations and 'the rich' and give more to unemployment. How do you stimulate the economy, creating jobs or making it easier for people to stay jobless? The political right is advocating keeping the money in the private sector, while the left is advocating moving the money into the public sector. Who is being more collectivist? It's classic 'redistribution of the wealth' theory, with the gov't taking the lion's share of it to manage the bureaucracy. And the left, instead of pointing out facts that support their approach, say "it's for the little guy", and it's opponents are a "bunch of rich fat-cats". More of the same bourgeosie vs. proliteriat crap.

Also, the next time you're at the local firing range, you might be shocked at the number of Christians there. I'll bet its WAY more than liberals. If you think the Christians are as big a threat to your way of life as liberals, guess again!

 

[WyldOne]

kidao said,

True, but the arguments made by the political left are based on illogical comparisons and rampant emotions, rather than fact and critical thinking.

actually, the religious right is guilty of this as well. IIRC, falwell and robertson blamed gays and abortionists for the 9/11 attack. hardly critical thinking; quite explicitly emotion. (i do apologize for not having a current link at my disposal at the moment, however.)

the problem as i see it, is not religion or political standing. the problem is extremism, and anyone can be extremist--be they american left or right, Christian, Muslim, whathaveyou.

 

[Zander]

Mike in VA...

It's right hard to use Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell in the same sentence as 'tolerance' or 'open mind'. I have little use for fundamentalists, regardless of stripe, they're dangerous bigots.

Nothing like a little bigotry to describe "bigotry".

However, it is my observation that when 'they' [conservative christians] are openly challenged with a different POV or don't get thier way, they don the mantle as 'people of faith' (as if the rest of us have none) start whining about 'Christian bashing'.

I'm a conservative Christian. There is Christian-bashing in this country [seems the vaunted tolerance preached by the left and touted by the media is for any group but Christians]...and I'm not just talking about your posts.

(though 'those people' are among the reasons I own guns).

Fundamentalist Christians cause you to own firearms?!? What an insufferably stupid concept. I sure hope you don't have kids in government schools.

 

[Steel]

"Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you" Matthew 5:11-12

 

[Mike in VA]

OK, Zander, here we go:

Yup, I'm intolerant of intolerance, and bigoted against bigots, sometimes Catch 22 works.

I have no problem with Conservatives or Christians, or Conservative Christians, as long as they understand that there are equally valid points of view and respect the presence of other intelligence in the room. You do your thing, I'll do mine. I have friends, neighbors & family members in many camps. We have a fine time pushing various POV's and we all manage to go home firiends on any given day.

Yup, 'Christian bashing' exists, just like racism or any other form of bigotry. Much 'christian bashing' is precipitated by self-righteous, preachy busy-body morons who, IMO, dont rally qualify as 'Christian'. You reap what you sow.

Fundamentalists of any persuasion are cause for alarm, as I don't need anyone's help in determining my viewing, reading, listening, consuming or any other dang habits. Those who would invade my privacy or limit my choices in life: i.e. library, bedroom, dining room or any other element of my life are subject to 9mm or .45 perferation (as a last resort, of course).

I apologize if singling out ' fundamentalist christians' offended you particularly (well that seems to be wha twe have the most of around here, though some Saudis are trying to become annoying in their own right), as I have had no local experience with fundamentalist Jews, Muslims, Buddists, or patagoniqn pud-pullers in NoVA. Ideologically, I keep guns to deal with any variety of proctologically-challenged politician/bureaucrat what wants to invade my life (yeah, yeah, tough talk for an overwieght-outashape 50-something, but ya-know-what-I'm-sayin'?).

I don't have any kids, but I agree with your opinion of publik skools.

I don't care to persecute anyone, I just want to be left alone. Any questions?