Delicate guns

[James K]

I often read postings from gun owners who seem to believe their guns are extremely fragile and delicate. Questions have been asked on such issues as these:

...Will using a brass brush wear out the bore?

...Will letting the slide go home break parts?

...Will wiping the gun with oil destroy the finish?

...Will firing jacketed bullets harm the barrel?

...Will firing a gun leave marks?

...How can I keep my gun perfect and unmarked and still fire it?

...What parts will break and how many spares should I have?

...What is the gentlest load I can use to not stress my gun?

...Will the slide/frame/barrel/parts break every time I shoot the gun or only sometimes?

...Will polymer frames wear out if I fire a hundred rounds?

...How long will ammunition last? Do I have to swap every week or so?

...Will magazine springs take a set if I leave a magazine loaded for several hours/days/weeks/months?

...Will dry firing break the hammer?

Just how delicate do these folks think guns are? The stresses of firing are far more significant than any that come from handling the gun.

Jim

 

[longeyes]

Great post, sir. You say well.

 

[Pampers]

I've encountered many of these people myself. You know, "Don't cycle that revolver! It'll leave marks on the cylinder!"

Modern guns, especially modern military combat weapons are designed to be used, and used hard!

I always tell these nervous Nellies that, if they were married to Christie Brinkley, she'd still be virgin.

USE IT FOR IT'S INTENDED PURPOSE!


Yr. Obt. Svnt.

------------------
Fred J. Drumheller
NRA Life
NRA Golden Eagle

 

[Mike Irwin]

Jim,

Well, I think a lot of the questions that people have about their guns are left over from the days when guns WERE a lot more delicate.

Many revolvers, espeically Colts, were known for being VERY hard on springs, simply because the quality of spring steel was greatly variable.

Dry firing older guns (and this is still the case with some rimfires and even some cheaper centerfires) COULD damage the gun. Dryfiring an older exposed hammer shotgun would invariably break the firing pins.

The no dry-firing is still excellent advice for the CZ-52, which has a very bad reputation of breaking the firing pin with a limited amount of dry firing. And this is a fairly modern design.

The same is true with jacketed bullets. There are common admonitions to not use jacketed bullets in older guns, ESPECIALLY older guns that were originally designed for blackpowder cartridges. The softer steels simply won't take the extra wear that jacketed bullets dish out.

It's really not hard to see how this could be translated to general advice for even new guns.

What was one good advice may not be applicable with new guns anymore, but the advice is still out there.

Why? Because we heard it from our grandfathers or fathers, who heard it from their predecessors.

Here's a good one... You HAVE to clean the gun soon after firing. Yep, that was true in the days of corrosive priming and black powder (and is still true if you're shooting foreign military ammo, or ammo of an unknown vintage).

But for modern ammo? Nope, not necessary. Modern ammo won't rust your guns. Yet we still hear that you have to clean within X hours of coming back from the range.

Why? Because the old advice dies hard.

(Speaking broadly here, to the entire board, not directly at you)

Why castigate someone who just isn't that familiar with firearms? Why not give them the benefit your greater knowledge, and explain to them what is wrong with their approach in non-judgmental terms?

Were we not ALL in the same position at one time? Have we fogotten OUR days of not knowing whether something was an old wives take, or whether it was actually important information?

I don't think a single one of us sprang from the earth fully grown and with a head full of firearms knowledge.

So let's stop acting like it, and being snotty about it. I know I've been guilty of it in the past.

People come to the Firing Line because they hear it's a good place to get information. Isn't that one of the reasons why were all here? To share our knowledge?

What's a newbie going to think, though, if he asks a question he just doesn't know the answer to, and gets this in return, or its equivilent?

"You, Sir, don't know jack about guns. You should sell all of them to me, and take up knitting. You're a moron, and you'll ALWAYS be a know-nothing moron. Your type shouldn't be allowed to have guns."

I'm being overly harsh with my wording, but who of us here hasn't seen a response on TFL that really borders on the example above?

One of the WORST things that we, as knowledgeable gunowners, can do is insult and belittle a newbie just because we know more.

That's NOT how to win converts to the causes of firearms rights and the shooting sports.

I see this sort of behavior all the time in gunshops, and I just shake my head.

------------------
Smith & Wesson is dead to me.

If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!



[This message has been edited by Mike Irwin (edited November 08, 2000).]

 

[Onslaught]

Obviously, not all members of TFL are as knowledgeable as yourself. That's why TFL exists, so that those who are NEW to the sport of handgunning can LEARN from those with more experience. It's great to have an opportunity to post a question that you'd be too embarrassed to ask in the Gunshop, fearing those guys may laugh or make fun of you. No sir, nobody's gonna be rude or make fun of any questions that they feel are "not intelligent" HERE! Because I'm sure that if any of the more experienced gun owners and fellow TFL'ers did that, it would lower the quality and benefit of having TFL as a resource. We would also scare off the newer members who wouldn't feel comfortable asking their inexperienced questions for fear of ridicule or sarcasm.

Good thing we're all above that, and look out for each other, and help each other, right?


(I didn't read Mike's post until after I posted, so... ditto on Mike's post )

[This message has been edited by Onslaught (edited November 08, 2000).]

 

[jb26]

Thanks Mike,

I agree. I am still shopping around for my first gun and I have asked some of these questions. I mean, from time to time, you do hear stories on all of the boards about firing pins breaking and kb's, etc. I just want to know how to properly handle and care the gun when I get it. That is why I come here... for advice.

I don't have a family tradition of firearm ownership, but I want to start one. So I don't have anyone to walk me through the first steps of learning guns. If you don't want to answer these questions, then don't. Or start a new section of the board for 'experienced members only'.

I come to learn and to try to pass on anything I know. Sorry for the rant. I'm just a little stressed.

------------------
"Those who would trade liberty for security will soon find they have neither."-B. Franklin
"Lord make me fast and accurate."

 

[James K]

Hi, Mike,

Good reply. I don't mean to belittle anyone, especially a newbie, for asking, but some of these ideas are coming from a few handgun gurus who seem to feel that it is a sin to actually shoot one of their perfect guns. (Some of these are the guys who train newbies not to fire a shot until the perfect position is assumed; this is self-defense training?)

But I doubt it is all due to old tales. Unfortunately, some modern makers (you know the names) have chosen to save money with innovative manufacturing methods that are proving to be deficient. It seems to me that some of these guns are far more prone to problems than the older guns.

All in all, I am inclined to agree with Pampers that guns should be shot. Those that can't make the grade will eventually fall by the wayside.

Jim

 

[Mike Irwin]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jim Keenan:
Hi, Mike,

Good reply. I don't mean to belittle anyone, especially a newbie, for asking, but some of these ideas are coming from a few handgun gurus who seem to feel that it is a sin to actually shoot one of their perfect guns. (Some of these are the guys who train newbies not to fire a shot until the perfect position is assumed; this is self-defense training?)

But I doubt it is all due to old tales. Unfortunately, some modern makers (you know the names) have chosen to save money with innovative manufacturing methods that are proving to be deficient. It seems to me that some of these guns are far more prone to problems than the older guns.

All in all, I am inclined to agree with Pampers that guns should be shot. Those that can't make the grade will eventually fall by the wayside.

Jim [/quote]

Jim,

I was pretty certain that you didn't mean to belittle anyone, but unfortunately, for a newbie, it may certainly come across that way.

If, by "gurus" you mean those in the firearms press, it's always been that way, and it likely always will be that way. I don't much like it either, but a lot of what is written these days is so similar to what was being written 20, 40, 60 or even 80 years ago that it's frightening.

No, not all this information/misinformation is due to old wives tales, much of it addressed situations that are no longer valid. Yet the advice lives on. It's not an old wives tale, it's dated information.

But dated information is something you'll find in EVER pursuit, not just firearms.

Finally, as for manufacturers making innovative changes that aren't panning out, well, all I can say to that is that that is NOTHING NEW. It's been going on since process manufacturing has been around.

The quest to save money while still providing a workable product, especially in an environment when a small savings can have a huge impact, has always been a holy grail of the manufacturers.

Sometimes it works, and gives us a better product: TVs, radios, etc.

Sometimes it doesn't: Chrysler K cars, etc.

------------------
Smith & Wesson is dead to me.

If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!

 

[Onslaught]

I luv you guys

 

[Mike Irwin]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Onslaught:
I luv you guys [/quote]

No, you can NOT have my Budwiser...

------------------
Smith & Wesson is dead to me.

If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!

 

[Gopher .45]

In regard to part of your question, a brass or bronze brush should NOT wear out your bore. Why, steele has a greater hardness than brass or bronze so it should not be affected by brass or bronze. That being said, if your brush is contaminated by some harder metal, then it will affect your bore.

 

[C.R.Sam]

Mike speaks true....Sam

 

[PreserveFreedom]

You mean you guys actually fire them?

JUST KIDDING! Good point though, Jim. This is one reason I don't buy collectors pieces unless they are the same price as a used standard model. I won't buy something I can't shoot. I won't shoot something I can't carry. I won't carry something I can't still be happy with after it scrapes down the face of a mountain.