Definitive Melonite IS Tenifer Website?

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Rustynuts

New member
Check this out. States Tenifer is Melonite?

http://www.durferrit.com/en/unternehmen/firmengeschichte.htm

"To meet the growing needs with regard to wear and corrosion resistance, as well as the enhancement of the fatigue strength, great efforts were devoted to the development and launching of the TENIFER® process, which is also known worldwide under the trade names of TUFFTRIDE® and MELONITE®. This nitrocarburizing process has undergone continuous development with regard to its regenerability and ecology, and from year-to-year the number of applications is increasing on all 5 continents."
 
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Playboypenguin

Moderator
The only people that will tell you melonite is not the same as tenifer are glock-o-philes.

They are the same process by the same creator. The only real difference is the melonite is actually superior in one way because the black coloring is added as part of the protective coating. The melonite finish itself is black.

The tenifer coating is grey and the black is simply applied cosmetically after the protective finish...which make it not wear as well color wise.

They both are very effective protective treatments but one does hold it color better.
 
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Rustynuts

New member
Um, not so sure that is right. I think the black on the melonite IS added later (at least on my XD's). You can polish off the black and not affect the melonite finish. Glock uses a parkerized finish after the Tenifer and XD uses black oxide I think.
 
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fastbolt

New member
Lots of folks have argued about this subject without ever actually looking up the 'differences' (actual or perceived). :)

FWIW, sometimes even talking to the folks at one of the manufacturers may result in dubious or incorrect information being received.

Yes, carbonitriding has been used under various brand names in different places.

The process can vary a bit, depending on the environmental restrictions in place, as well. I seem to remember that the Tenifer process had to change somewhat at some point, eliminating the cyanates (from Cyanide salts used) from the water rinse part of the process .

The Melonite process is commonly offered in 3 steps. The second step (QP) is what I was told S&W uses, since that's the process which can be used with stainless steels, as opposed to the QPQ (extra post-oxidation step) version of the Tenifer version of the carbonitriding treatment which Walther advertises being used on their carbon steel P99 slides & barrels (which used to be listed as Tenifer QPQ in the Walther product description).

Lots of folks will argue about anything, though, and won't let facts distract them from offering their passionate opinions. :)

This surface heat treating process has been used in one form or another for lots of things, from transmission parts to golf club shafts.

As I remember when I called and spoke to the Springfield folks about the then-new adoption of Melonite treatment on their .45 caliber XD's, I was told they were trying it on their .45's at the time without any immediate plans to extend the treatment to the XD's chambered in other calibers.

The surface hardening is rather tough on the Melonite processed pistols which I've examined, supported, carried and owned.

I didn't ask which vendor S&W uses to treat their slides, barrels and some occasional metal frames. I thought one of the folks said the compnay might be on the West Coast.

Anyway, according to both firearm manufacturers, the treatment specified by S&W results in a surface hardness of 68HRc and the treatment specified by Glock results in a hardness of 64 HRc. Both are good enough for their intended uses by the respective firearms manufacturers, don't you think?

http://burlingtoneng.com/melonite.html

FYI, from the part of the linked website in the thread about the Tenifer treatment: "Used with a strongly oxidizing cooling bath - TENIFER®-QPQ - wear and corrosion resistant surfaces with an attractive black appearance are produced."
http://www.durferrit.de/en/produkte/waermebehandlung/nitrocarbonitrieren.htm
 
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Playboypenguin

Moderator
Um, not so sure that is right. I think the black on the melonite IS added later (at least on my XD's). You can polish off the black and not affect the melonite finish. Glock uses a parkerized finish after the Tenifer and XD uses black oxide I think.
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When was your XD made. You can look it up by serial number and see if yours was one of the ones with the new colored melonite treatment. It is only the recent ones that have this process.
 
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old_ironsights

New member
fastbolt, "Lots of folks will argue about anything
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, though, and won't let facts distract them from offering their passionate opinions."

fastbolt hits the nail on the head!
 
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Rustynuts

New member
My XD was made in 2007, so it definitely has the new melonite finish. Just trying to figure out if the blued finish actually comes from melonite process, since I know the actual melonite goes deeper into the metal than just the blued part.
 
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Chui

New member
Melonite = Tenifer = Tuftride with only minor differences in process. The results are THE SAME.

They are all ferritic, salt-bath nitrocarburization processes.
 
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IdahoG36

New member
I am going to sit back and see how many people might come along and argue that they are different or that one is superior over the other....:D:D

"No way. GLOCK invented Tenifer, so it's better!":rolleyes::barf:
 
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JohnKSa

Administrator
The results are THE SAME.
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Well, yes and no.

According to the link in Mr. Watson's post, the melonite process puts a black finish on the firearm at the same time as the treatment. Tenifer (as used by Glock) definitely does not although there is a variant of the Tenifer process (involving an extra step or two) that does. The original G17 pistols didn't have the black finish, it was added on the later pistols. Furthermore, Glock states categorically that they can not reapply the Tenifer finish but that they will reapply the black cosmetic coating over the Tenifer which makes it clear that the black finish is not a product of the Tenifer process as used by Glock.

Admittedly, that's a cosmetic difference, but it is a different result.

Furthermore, the alloy being treated and the duration of the treatment can affect the depth that the treatment penetrates as well as the hardness and corrosion resistance of the resulting finish. I'm not saying which finish is better, or if even that one is better than the other--I don't know. I'm just pointing out that even if the two processes were perfectly identical that wouldn't mean that the results would have to be the same.

Here's one source that illustrates what I'm trying to say:


Which means that even if two companies were using EXACTLY the same processes down to the last detail, the results could be significantly different if the alloys being treated by the respective companies were different.
 
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Playboypenguin

Moderator
According to the link in Mr. Watson's post, the melonite process puts a black finish on the firearm at the same time as the treatment. Tenifer (as used by Glock) definitely does not
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What? You mean I was actually right for once? :eek: :D
 
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Chui

New member
I researched this in depth for a client about five years ago that resulted in a US counterpart and the client actually signing a disclosure agreement and are now in business with each other.

The color is, as you say, cosmetic. The performance enhancing results being sought by the methods are the same.

There is another proprietary process being developed that is better still and without the toxic results. It will appear (albeit slowly) in the firearm market - probably in high end military applicationsgear.

This is all I can say at the moment.
 
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Jim Watson

New member
There is no doubt that Melonite, Tennifer, and Tuftride are regional trade names for the Durferrit-DeGussa surface hardening process. But there are several variants, probably even beyond the advertised QP and QPQ approaches. Not all Glocks are alike, not all heat treatments are alike, even though the name and vendor are the same.
 
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