Defense With Black Powder Revolver?
- Thread starter ACP230
- Start date
jjmorgan64
New member
Anything in a 44 caliber
Any of these will do the job if you do yours, the rugers are the strongest framed, yey that isn't all that important in a self defence situation.
I would be diligant in my cleaning of the gun and making sure that the nipples were unobstructed, and there was absolutely no oil in the cylinder. and that the caps were tight.
If i loaded one for self defense i would have no problem using it if neccesary, just be aware that reloading is not an option.
I would also look into a drop in 45 colt cylinder
Any of these will do the job if you do yours, the rugers are the strongest framed, yey that isn't all that important in a self defence situation.
I would be diligant in my cleaning of the gun and making sure that the nipples were unobstructed, and there was absolutely no oil in the cylinder. and that the caps were tight.
If i loaded one for self defense i would have no problem using it if neccesary, just be aware that reloading is not an option.
I would also look into a drop in 45 colt cylinder
Don't underestimate the Colt M1860 or the Remington equivalent! In Mosby's memoirs, he noted that, on one occasion alone, a squadron of his cavalry killed more Yankees with their .44's than were killed with the sabre in the whole of the Franco-Prussian War! (Yes, I know that war was after our Civil War; he was quoting a writer analyzing the European war in the 1870's.)
Mosby thought that his command (43rd Battalion of Virginia Partisan Rangers) had done more to make the Colt famous than any other body of men, and he may have been correct.
Lone Star
Mosby thought that his command (43rd Battalion of Virginia Partisan Rangers) had done more to make the Colt famous than any other body of men, and he may have been correct.
Lone Star
If you're going cap'n'ball to avoid paperwork, the Ruger .44s are the undisputed kings. Load 'em with spherical lead balls, and get a good hefty charge going. Long range accuracy will suffer but out to 50 yards or less, genuine round ball at enough speed does a lot of damage, moreso than modern FMJ.
I agree with Mr. March, the Rugers are great. If you cast bullets from Lee`s moulds, especially for the Old Army, you can use heavier projectiles, or hollow points, too! I`ve heard the 45 round ball effectiveness, is equivilent to a 38 spl., I dont know how true it is, but I recall hearing/reading that.
I have a Ruger Old Army, which is quite OK, but is heavy and bulky. But I rather think I would use a Colt Army which has been through a war (a very UNcivil war) and which I know works all the time.
One overlooked advantage of the Colt over the Remington or Ruger is that fired caps can be shaken out of the action, which is not possible with the top strap revolvers.* You want to use split caps rather than the new solid caps because the latter have to be removed from the nipples and that is very bad when you have to reload quickly. Of course, I would carry cartridges and a capper. A spare loaded cylinder is OK but dangerous if dropped on something solid.
*This is where the cavalry got the habit of bringing the revolver back over the shoulder, and shaking it as they cocked it. They did this well into the SAA era.
Jim
One overlooked advantage of the Colt over the Remington or Ruger is that fired caps can be shaken out of the action, which is not possible with the top strap revolvers.* You want to use split caps rather than the new solid caps because the latter have to be removed from the nipples and that is very bad when you have to reload quickly. Of course, I would carry cartridges and a capper. A spare loaded cylinder is OK but dangerous if dropped on something solid.
*This is where the cavalry got the habit of bringing the revolver back over the shoulder, and shaking it as they cocked it. They did this well into the SAA era.
Jim
jjmorgan64
New member
they make them for the steel framed Remington 1858's and for the Ruger old Armies, that i know of. They are a pretty slick little toy.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111689&highlight=drop+cylinder+colt
Here is the info the company gave me via email: (LONG)
----- Original Message -----
From: john morgan <jjmorgan64@yahoo.com>
To: <info@taylorsfirearms.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 9:00 AM
Subject: drop in cylinders
> yes, i was curious about your drop in cylanders for
> the 1858 remington 44's. could you tell me what is the
> procedure for this, do i have to send it in for
> fitting, etc. and a rough figure on the cost?
>
> thank you John Morgan
>
From: "Taylor's & Co., Inc." <tcinc@monumental.com> | Block Address | Add to Address Book
To: "john morgan" <jjmorgan64@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: drop in cylinders
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:11:39 -0400
The R & D Conversion cylinders are manufactured to allow a RUGER OLD ARMY or
an 1858 REMINGTON STEEL FRAME, black powder revolver to shoot .45 LC COWBOY
AMMUNITION - that is .45 LC smokeless powder loaded to black powder
specifications. This ammunition is sold by companies such as TEN-X, BLACK
HILLS AMMUNITION CO., 3-D AMMO and others.
This is a six-shot patented cylinder which allows one chamber to be used for
an empty for safety. The firing pin and ferrel is left in the white on this
chamber so you can tell which chamber is your empty even when your cylinder
is loaded in your gun. This type of safety makes these cylinders excellent
to use for competitive events such as SASS. The cylinders are manufactured
in 4150 arsenal grade steel and 4140 steel for the top plate.
If you have a Remington Revolver you need to know the manufacturer of your
gun and order the cylinder for that specific gun. Remington replicas are
manufactured in Italy and usually have some markings on the gun indicating
which factory they were manufactured. If you cannot locate the Italian
company name that manufactured your gun then provide us with the markings on
your gun we will attempt to assist you with the identification of the
manufacturer. If all else fails, you can return the gun to us and we will
be glad to fit your gun with a conversion cylinder at no charge.
The is a drop in unit which normally does not need any fitting. Reloading
is as simple as pulling the cylinder pin, removing the cylinder and lifting
the cap off the cylinder with your fingers. Reload the cylinder and put the
cap back on - put the cylinder back into your gun. No screws or threads to
make this operation difficult.
The cylinders sell for $240.00 in standard blue. To obtain a 'stainless
steel' match we offer the cylinder with nickel finish - brushed to match
stainless steel. These cylinders for the stainless steel guns are $270.00.
In this way we can still use the proper certified steels to get the same
quality cylinder. A black matte finish is available for the UBERTI
Millenium Remington revolver for the $240.00 pricing.
Additional cylinders (without the cap) can be purchased for $120.00. These
cylinders can be used for speed loading and must match the same manufacturer
of your gun.
We strive to keep inventory on these cylinders so we are hopeful we will
have the model you need in stock when you order. If not, we are in constant
supply of new inventory. These cylinders can be ordered direct from our
office or through a local dealer of your choice who can order them from us
for you. Freight on these cylinders usually runs around $7.00 by United
Parcel Service.
When ordering from our office, we accept Mastercard or VISA or prepayment
can be made with a money order or certified check. COD CASH (which requires
a money order or certified check upon receipt of the parcel) is also
available but this service adds $5.50 to your freight charges making a total
of $12.50.
Our web site at www.taylorsfirearms.com has not been updated with our latest
catalog at this time; however, if you would like a catalog of our products
please request one and include your name and address and we will be glad to
send you one. Two pages in this catalog review the R & D cylinder
conversions.
Thank you for interest in our products. If you have any questions, please
feel free to contact us.
Sue
Sales
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111689&highlight=drop+cylinder+colt
Here is the info the company gave me via email: (LONG)
----- Original Message -----
From: john morgan <jjmorgan64@yahoo.com>
To: <info@taylorsfirearms.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 9:00 AM
Subject: drop in cylinders
> yes, i was curious about your drop in cylanders for
> the 1858 remington 44's. could you tell me what is the
> procedure for this, do i have to send it in for
> fitting, etc. and a rough figure on the cost?
>
> thank you John Morgan
>
From: "Taylor's & Co., Inc." <tcinc@monumental.com> | Block Address | Add to Address Book
To: "john morgan" <jjmorgan64@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: drop in cylinders
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:11:39 -0400
The R & D Conversion cylinders are manufactured to allow a RUGER OLD ARMY or
an 1858 REMINGTON STEEL FRAME, black powder revolver to shoot .45 LC COWBOY
AMMUNITION - that is .45 LC smokeless powder loaded to black powder
specifications. This ammunition is sold by companies such as TEN-X, BLACK
HILLS AMMUNITION CO., 3-D AMMO and others.
This is a six-shot patented cylinder which allows one chamber to be used for
an empty for safety. The firing pin and ferrel is left in the white on this
chamber so you can tell which chamber is your empty even when your cylinder
is loaded in your gun. This type of safety makes these cylinders excellent
to use for competitive events such as SASS. The cylinders are manufactured
in 4150 arsenal grade steel and 4140 steel for the top plate.
If you have a Remington Revolver you need to know the manufacturer of your
gun and order the cylinder for that specific gun. Remington replicas are
manufactured in Italy and usually have some markings on the gun indicating
which factory they were manufactured. If you cannot locate the Italian
company name that manufactured your gun then provide us with the markings on
your gun we will attempt to assist you with the identification of the
manufacturer. If all else fails, you can return the gun to us and we will
be glad to fit your gun with a conversion cylinder at no charge.
The is a drop in unit which normally does not need any fitting. Reloading
is as simple as pulling the cylinder pin, removing the cylinder and lifting
the cap off the cylinder with your fingers. Reload the cylinder and put the
cap back on - put the cylinder back into your gun. No screws or threads to
make this operation difficult.
The cylinders sell for $240.00 in standard blue. To obtain a 'stainless
steel' match we offer the cylinder with nickel finish - brushed to match
stainless steel. These cylinders for the stainless steel guns are $270.00.
In this way we can still use the proper certified steels to get the same
quality cylinder. A black matte finish is available for the UBERTI
Millenium Remington revolver for the $240.00 pricing.
Additional cylinders (without the cap) can be purchased for $120.00. These
cylinders can be used for speed loading and must match the same manufacturer
of your gun.
We strive to keep inventory on these cylinders so we are hopeful we will
have the model you need in stock when you order. If not, we are in constant
supply of new inventory. These cylinders can be ordered direct from our
office or through a local dealer of your choice who can order them from us
for you. Freight on these cylinders usually runs around $7.00 by United
Parcel Service.
When ordering from our office, we accept Mastercard or VISA or prepayment
can be made with a money order or certified check. COD CASH (which requires
a money order or certified check upon receipt of the parcel) is also
available but this service adds $5.50 to your freight charges making a total
of $12.50.
Our web site at www.taylorsfirearms.com has not been updated with our latest
catalog at this time; however, if you would like a catalog of our products
please request one and include your name and address and we will be glad to
send you one. Two pages in this catalog review the R & D cylinder
conversions.
Thank you for interest in our products. If you have any questions, please
feel free to contact us.
Sue
Sales
Mike Weber
New member
Cap & Ball For Self Defense
I would have no problem using my 1860 Army for this purpose I would recommend following the proceedures that jjmorgan listed in his post. I've heard critics discount the stopping power of these revolvers. But remember in their day they more than proved their worth. Remember Quantrill's Raiders?
I would have no problem using my 1860 Army for this purpose I would recommend following the proceedures that jjmorgan listed in his post. I've heard critics discount the stopping power of these revolvers. But remember in their day they more than proved their worth. Remember Quantrill's Raiders?
My question wouldn't be regarding the effectiveness. As was pointed out earlier, they did a pretty fine job in their heyday. My question would be what loading for inside a home or apartment? That good old lead ball can do some penetrating (if we're talking cap and ball revolvers vs BPCR). What would the preferred projectile be?
lonegunman
New member
If a 45 Colt cylinder is placed in a cap and ball handgun, does it then become regulated as if it were a modern handgun?
I mean, it is my understanding that no paperwork is needed on a federal level for purchase of a cap and ball handgun. If it is then converted to fire cartridges, what happens from a legal standpoint
?
I mean, it is my understanding that no paperwork is needed on a federal level for purchase of a cap and ball handgun. If it is then converted to fire cartridges, what happens from a legal standpoint
?
If I had to, I would defend myself with a stick or a rock. Given a choice, I would use a more modern technology. Same goes for the black powder option. I would certainly use a black powder gun if I had nothing better, but in my opinion, I have several other preferred options available.
AFAIK, converting a cap and ball revolver to fire cartridges would be manufacturing a firearm. This would not be illegal under Federal law as long as it is for your own use and not for sale, and as long as you are not prohibited from owning a cartridge handgun. But some state or local laws prohibit or license cartridge handguns but not c & b revolvers. Those laws would be violated once the cartridge cylinder is installed.
As for carrying a cap and ball revolver, I know of no carry law that distinguishes between fixed and non-fixed ammunition handguns. The laws usually just say "firearm" or "handgun" or "pistol/revolver" or "deadly weapon".
Jim
As for carrying a cap and ball revolver, I know of no carry law that distinguishes between fixed and non-fixed ammunition handguns. The laws usually just say "firearm" or "handgun" or "pistol/revolver" or "deadly weapon".
Jim
I had a CVA repro of the 1858 Army Remington, 44 cal. With a pure lead ball, and 30 Gr of "P" Pyrodex per cylinder, made a decent defense revolver. It would keep 'em in the 10-ring @15yds, if I did my part. I would fire, clean, and reload evey other day. If I went more than 4 days between firings, ignition was unreliable..powder would become a solid mass in the cylinder.