Defects in NYPD handguns

BrokenArrow

New member
Typical of reporters trying to write about gun problems w/o any real gun experience, but interesting anyway?

Defects in NYPD handguns

Half subject to jamming

NY Daily News August 21, 2002
By Bob Kappstatter and Alice McQuillan

More than half of the Police Department's handguns are subject to jam without warning, a potentially dangerous flaw that can leave the weapons a "useless as paperweights," police sources said.

Although the jamming is rare, the NYPD has been concerned enough to order a recall of 24,000 semiautomatic Glock handguns so they can be refitted.

This problem affects the Glock Model 19 - the gun carried by about 60% of the department's 39,000 officers. The flaw, in which the shell casing fails to eject, has only arisen during practice and tests at the NYPD firing range, officials say.

"Our studies have shown this to be a rare occurrence," said police spokesman Chief Michael Collins. "In the worst-case scenario.we estimated that this has happened only once in 450,000 times when fired."

However, during an actual gun battle in Brooklyn, two Emergency Service Unit Officers reported that their Glocks failed. Collins said that after and investigation of the October 2000 incident, ballistics experts said whatever problem those guns had, it was not the jamming malfunction that is the subject of the current recall.

To correct the problem, the Austrian-based Glock company has sent engineers to the NYPD's firing range at Rodman's Neck in the Bronx. Since June, they have repaired 3,200 weapons in a procedure that takes about an hour. Immediately afterward, officers tested the refitted weapons at the range, where the results have been excellent, Collins said. The process will continue until all 24,000 Glocks are fixed, he said.

There is a delay in fixing all the weapons, sources said, because cutbacks and the redeployment of officers to special details have made it difficult for cops to schedule time to have their guns repaired.

Sources also said that some of the Glocks have a different problem - locking. When a gun locks, a user can get it functioning again by removing the clip and holding the ammunition and manually moving the slide to eject the stuck shell casing.

In that scenario, the source said, "You can be back in the gun battle in a matter of seconds, as opposed to the total jam where the guns become [as] useless as paperweights."

Now, now! Don't go ballistic and read too much into this, OK? ;)
 

buzz_knox

New member
I had a problem with a Glock locking up one time. I was leaving for the evening and said "hey Glock, be sure to lock up behind me." Well, I came back the next morning and the dadburned door was still open! That's what I get for leaving a baby (it was a Glock 26) in charge!
 

70-101

Moderator
To My Knowledge,

It's a very few Glock 19 that had case ejection problems. And most of the failures accured at there training range. This issue has been on going for sometime now. I think this is an example of Glock going out of it's way to keep a knowledge customer happy,so they will continue to purchase and use there products.
 
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BrokenArrow

New member
A very few? 88 guns did it 134 times as of Oct 98 according to another article. That's about 1 in 300 guns. And there were at least 2 more real incidents than the ones mentioned. Not the simple jams where ya clear and go on; guns were not useable for too long if at all. Is your range bag half full, or half empty? ;)

Was it the ammo? Same ammo worked fine in the S&Ws and SIGs.

Was it the operator training? Handling? Maintenance? Again, the S&Ws and SIGs worked fine under the same conditions.

Springs, connectors, followers, etc? Why NYPD and not everybody? Beats me.

Was NYPD using a trigger spring/connector set up not Ok'd by Glock? They are now, as well as some work on the slide/extractor to make the prob easier to deal w if it does happen.

Glock and NYPD have been kicking this around for about 6 yrs now, this is what it took to keep the Glocks in service and everybody happy.

What's so interesting to me is _any_ other gun would have been kicked to the curb a long time ago. Many have been for less many other places, including NYPD. Remember how the SIG P226s came and went and came back...

But not Glock! Now _that's_ perfection!? :D
 

HKguy9

New member
When a gun locks, a user can get it functioning again by removing the clip and holding the ammunition and manually moving the slide to eject the stuck shell casing.

Well, that's what ya get for tryin' to load .30-06 en-blocs in yer Glock! :p

What is the New York trigger, is this problem in the New York trigger models and not present in everyone elses'?
 

juliet charley

New member
What is the New York trigger, is this problem in the New York trigger models and not present in everyone elses'?
It does happen in G19s without the NY trigger. It's just NYPD has roughly 24k of them in a signle organization and keeps good records. The problem just became obvious in the NYPD.
 

AndABeer

New member
I have a G29 that used to lock up on me just about every magazine full. The spent case would get stuck under the extractor and when the slide came forward I ended up with a pretty hard jam. Most times I had to pry the empty out with a screwdriver. As I understand it, this is the phase/type III malfunction.

I sent my first G29 (serial #CHAxxx) to Glock who sent it back with a laundry list of internal parts replaced. Went through about 100 rounds before it started jamming again in the same manner. Sent it back to Glock they sent me a new pistol (serial #DZSxxx). Got through a box of ammo before the exact same type of jam started happening. At that point I took matters into my own hands and fixed it myself by bending the ejector to the greatest angle I could that would still allow reassembly of the pistol. The tip of the ejector actually rubs lightly on the bottom of the slide mill out now. I am now over 2000 rounds and no jams. Seems to have helped several people over on GlockTalk's 10 Ring as well.
 

GLOCKT

New member
can you say limpwristing?

it's a very common error one has when limpwristing a 9mm.
causing the next round to stove pipe the next round into the ejection port.
firm grip,and prepare for the next shot is a simple remedy.
nothing wrong with the pistol,operator error.
 

AndABeer

New member
I can say it but it is not the problem

the jam type under discussion is a failure to eject not a failure to feed
 

Covert Mission

New member
This topic has been discussed at length over at www.tacticalforums.com Doa search for posts by Pat Rogers (the ex-NYPD cop, now a firearms trainer/Gunsite adjunct).

I have 2 G19s, and they're as reliable as a stone axe. If you have 1000 rounds through one and no problems, you're good to go and shouldn't expect any. And, as "AndaBeer" says, the G19 isn't the only Glock that has had problems... I've heard of more than a few G29s with them.

Glocks ain't perfect or infallible, but when you get a good one, you can bet your life on it as much as any pistol, imo.
Be safe.
 

James K

Member In Memoriam
Pry the case out with a screwdriver?

Custer's troops bought pocket knives for the same use.

This is progress?

Jim
 

Pizzagunner

New member
Glocks ain't perfect or infallible, but when you get a good one, you can bet your life on it as much as any pistol, imo.

What? Glocks aren't "Perfection?"

Just another case of false advertising.
 

BrokenArrow

New member
Darn! How'd I miss that other thread!? Wouldn't have repeated it if I saw that one... mea culpa guys.

No go meat, two different problems.

You are talking about the case being left in the chamber cuzz the extractor didn't grab it. That's an older problem and an older fix. Go find a more reputable Glock armorer who keeps up better. ;)

This is another problem w yet another fix.

The NYPD problem is the case being held on to too tight by the extractor, riding up over the ejector and not ejecting at all, then going fwd w the slide to jam up aginst the barrel hood nice n tight; some of em need to be pried out w a tool and some oomph. This latest fix is some work on the slide and extractor.

Is it just me, or is a gun that is that sensitive (more sensitive than the NYPDs SIGs and S&Ws it seems) about it's ammo, care, and handling a tad short of perfection in the real cop world? ;)

So, since 1982 Glock has fixed the frame rails, trigger bar, trigger spring, firing pin safety, extractor... perfection just keeps getting better n better! ;)

Hey, could be worse; imagine what NYPD could do w 24,000 mil-spec 1911s!?!? :D
 
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