defective 870 extractors

[xm21]

If like me you have replaced the MIM ext that came with your 870 Express with a forged ext that is standard on a Wingmaster or Police model check to make sure the new ext has the top edge beveled like on your old one.

Remingtons total disregard for any QC has resulted in ext's being sold that do not have this bevel and will cause a groove in the receiver behind the ejection port.

I found this info at calguns.net from a poster that builds Rem 870's for police dept's.This guys advice,along with scattergun bob's,has always proven reliable.

The fix takes just a few minutes with a file and the groove in the receiver would not really compromise the receivers strength but it is another reason when I buy a new Bolt Action rifle in a few months it will be a Howa instead of the Model 700.

 

[zippy13]

I don't know if your complaint is with the original use of MIM parts or the dimensions of the forged replacement. Unless a part is advertised as being a direct replacement, I typically assume it will be a little oversized to allow it to be tailored to its specific application. In an era of fits-all aftermarket gun accessories, it easy to forget the days when many replacement parts required some work. The proper fitting of replacement parts was bread and butter work for LGSs.

I suspect, when Scattergun Bob replaces an extractor he does what's required for a proper job without making gross generalizations about Remington's total disregard for any QC. Perhaps folks who don't know how to properly fit the revised extractors shouldn't be attempting the job. Luckily, you seem to be aware of what's required.

Instead of complaining, you might ask yourself, "How much more would I be willing to pay to have the replacement part pre-beveled?" And, I don't think you would be happy if Remington required the gun to be returned to the factory for the new extractor -- if enough people complain about the extractors needing fitting, they could do just that, or restrict the part.

Of course, the issue wouldn't have come up in the first place if you'd bought a 870 Wingmaster or P-model instead of trying to upgrade an Express. Why assume a cross model part swap will be a drop-in replacement? Your complaint is sounding more and more like the proverbial sour grapes.

 

[xm21]

Zippy it is the factory replacement part that came directly from Remington.I do not know if you realize that this part is the factory replacement as I stated that comes standard on the 870P and Wingmaster.

Maybe you have never replaced an 870 ext and do not realize how easy it is.

For those who have replaced this part you can look inside the receiver at the rear of the ejection port and if you have a scratch there go to aiptactical.com where the owner,JD McGuire,explains the problem and shows how to fix it.

Thanks anyway Zippy for the back handed compliment about me being "luckily aware of what is required" but the thanks in that case belongs to Jerry Kuhnhausen for his excellent shop manual on the Remington 870 and 1100 shotguns.

 

[zippy13]

xm21,
I was just trying to point out that the factory direct replacements may not always be drop-in even if they seem to fit. A good example is SA revolver innards, the new parts may drop right in; but, without proper fitting, your timing will probably be totally messed up. So, please don't get too excited if you have to do some fitting, and don't assume the parts are faulty because they require fitting.

Yes, you're correct, the design of the 1100's, 11/87's, 870's, etc. extractors is about as basic as it gets. Thus, they may lead you to feeling a sense of false security since they seem to be identical. What I don't know, is the 870 Express bolt machined (to accept the MIM extractor) to the same dimensions as the Wingmaster's bolt (to accept the forged extractor)? Or, are there some slight dimensional differences between the extractor pockets in the various bolts? I've had my forged extractor out for cleaning; but, I don't know if a factory replacement part is exactly the same or a little meatier.

I too am a fan of Jerry Kuhnhausen's shop manuals. There seems to be some common threads between the ones I have. First, they show me how little I really know (and I'm glad to have Jerry's wealth of info), and that things that appear to be obvious may not be so simple. The forged extractor substitution is a great example of the latter. We'd not attempt modifying the sear angle without consulting the manual, but how could a simple extractor swap go south? You were wise to consult the manual -- how many other wouldn't?

What you didn't mention: Did you go to the forged unit because the MIM extractor failed, or as a precaution? Most similar threads are complaints about the quality of MIM parts, not about having to fit their replacements.

 

[SoilworK777]

xm21

Did the extractor come in a little baggie with instructions to custom fit the part? If it didn't one would assume it was ready to install.

 

[Scattergun Bob]

XM21

Tim,

Sorry you had that problem, I myself have never ran in to it. A question did this part come directly from Remington? With China making a identical copy of our 870 could this be a after market part. When I left my agency I spent a chunk of my sick leave and comp time pay buying a stockpile of Remington and S&W parts. I have about 20 forged extractors and after reading your post closely inspected these parts. I see no edges on these parts that would cause the problem that you identified. If in fact this is a true Remington part it should go back with a nasty-gram, in my opinion.

Someone asked how I fit a extractor, the simple answer is with great care just as any other part on a firearm.

The long answer is as follows:
1st I use a very fine stone and re-surface the sides of the extractor, I don't remove metal just polish a bit.

2nd I check the knife edge on the extractor hook for sharpness and no burrs or dings.

3rd I remove the extractor plunger and extractor spring. Clean & Examine the spring and plunger for defect (if the plunger has dings on its edge it can affect the extractor performance). I then clean out the hole that the spring lives in with some cleaner and a Q-tip. I lightly grease the extractor spring and re-assemble.

Once assembled I use my finger to check and make sure the extractor has the correct movement, then use some Dummy action proving rounds to check for function. Thats about That

I really can't comment on the current quality of Remington parts, I have not had the need for any recently. As I am sure you read previously in my little essay on enhancing the Express it bothers me that Remington decided to add a model of 870 that has (gifted ) parts in it.

My Best To You, Bob

 

[xm21]

Zippy the bolts are the same,no fitting is required to install the extractor.I bought the forged extractor to replace the MIM on Scattergun Bobs recommendation,heck it was so inexpensive why not.

Soilwork 77 the extractor had no instructions for fitting.

Mr.McGuires website is a wealth of info on the 870 shotgun and he noted the problem of the missing chamfer(or bevel,or taper,etc.) on the extractors that he was getting from the rem factory.This guy buys about 80,000 dollars worth of parts from Remington every year.

My extractor was bought from Midway USA in 08 and after reading about the problem in the shotgun pages at Glocktalk a few weeks ago(where Mr McGuire gave the link to calguns.net where he described the problem in detail) I looked in the receiver and saw the scratch and compared the forged ext to the one I replaced and yep just like he said the top edge of the ext was not rounded off to match the curve of the bolt thus the sharp edge of the ext (when pushed outward by the rim of the hull) was rubbing the receiver.

I took out the ext,filed the edge to match the old part and problem solved.

I just thought that other folks who have replaced the ext,s on their 870's and were not aware of this problem and might have got one like it would appreciate knowing about it.If I had known that my qualifications to install such a simple part would be called into question I would never have posted about it.

 

[zippy13]

If I had known that my qualifications to install such a simple part would be called into question I would never have posted about it.

xm21,
Your qualifications to successfully swaps parts were never in question. Obviously, you successfully made the required modifications and have posted your findings for the benefit of others. Please, continue to share your observations. However your remark about, Remington's total disregard for any QC, is a pretty broad-brush indictment of all Remington products.

Anyone who's followed forum postings is aware that Remington seems to cut costs by spending less time on the chambers of 870 Express barrels than those for the Wingmasters and P-versions. Some folks take this in stride and re-finish their Exp chambers without comment. Not everyone is aware of the inherent trade off between MIMed and forged parts. Typically, MIM parts are ready to use directly from casting, but there's a strength question. Forged parts are stronger but require more time. The savings using MIM parts has led to their wide spread application throughout the firearms industry.

Now, it seems we need to be aware that Remington's forged replacement parts may need special attention by the end-user. This doesn't necessarily represent poor QC at the factory (or sub-contractor), it may be the result of a conscious loosening of the specs to reduce costs. The QC crew may still be on the job, but they are enforcing less rigid specifications.