Deep Cyogenic Tempering????

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chucko

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While Cryo'ing precision machinery and tools has proven benifits, it is not been widely accepted as a reliably way of increasing the accuracy of a firearm. American Rifleman even did an article about it and couldn't prove its value.

Now, having gotten the strict facts out of the way, I own a 10/22 that was completely rebuilt by Briley. The only Ruger part left is the receiver. I had them send the barrel out to be Cryo'd and I've been extremely happy with its performance. Since it was done before they sent me the rifle, I can't say that its any better than if it hadn't been Cryo'd.

Worst case your out around $35 and see no improvement. It's not going to hurt your firearm.

Most likely you'll see an improvement ( real or preceived ) and you have a warm fuzzy fealing knowing you've gone that extra mile to improve your rifle.

Just my .02

Chuck
 

Steve Koski

New member
From what I've read, barrel freezing is not a statistically significant method of improving accuracy. Some tests show it not changing the accuracy at all. Some rifles suffer accuracy losses after treatment. I'd spend my money on more proven methods.

Koski
 

Mantas

New member
Since my USP is already more accurate than I am, I'm more interested in its longevity increase in barrel life over accuracy, supposedly cold-hammer forged chromium steel(which HK makes the USP barrels out of) gets better results than other alloys after the cyogenic process.

Not that I'm exactly worried about my barrel wearing out, but like I said I'm a total science nerd and I kind of think it would be neat.
Boy does that sound dorky!
 

TEX

New member
About two or three years back, I did some fairly extensive testing on several pistol barrels with cryogenic tempering. If I remember right I tested a Sig 229 in 40S&W, Beretta Cougar in 40 S&W, Browning BDM in 9mm, Kel Tec P11 in 9mm, and a Taurus PT945 in 45 ACP. No revolvers, all autos. I was pretty well convinced that it was worth while and had been proven in rifles. I was skeptical about the short tubes on pistols, but like many others I am a techno and gadget buff. Most gadgets are worthless, but evry once in a while you find a real gem, so I keep looking and fooling around with almost any aftermarket item made for pistols - if its in my budget
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I fired 10 shot groups at 25 yards from a deviced used for testing accuracy or sighting in a pistol. I was very meticulous (sp?) and actually wrote a short paper on the results althought it wasn't for anyone, just a record for myself. I will look for it and if I find it and anyone is interested I will try to e-mail them a copy.

There was a small increase in accuracy, but not (in my opinion) enough to make a different in a handgun used for combative defense. On average the group improvement was just over 1/4" at 25 yards. By this I mean that the average distance of the rounds from the group center shrunk by 1/4". One of the pistols showed no improvement and actually showed a group that was about 1/8" larger. Keep in mind that these very small differences at 25 yards could be completely written off as human error or influence (felt better, less coffee, just having a good or bad day, in the groove, etc.) The Taurus PT945 showed quite an improvement and the Kel-Tec P11 showed a tremendous (sp?) improvement. The Beretta Cougar showed no improvement, I believe, and the Browning BDM showed a slight increase in group size and the Sig 229 showed a little improvement. This is all from memory and I may not remember it exactly right. Five to eight different types or brands of ammunition were used. Cor-Bon, Speer Gold Dot, Hydra-Shok, Speer Lawman, S&B, Houston Cartridge, etc., if memory serves me. The pre-cryo and post cryo rounds all came from the same box (same lot)and weather conditions were the same to within several degrees, both with no wind and high humidity. The pistols were allowed to cool 5 minutes between each round and two fouling or heating rounds were fired off target into berm before the test was begun. None of the pistols were exactly new. Some had had over 1000 round through them and none had had less than 200. This is only important if you subscribe to barrel break in. I have seen barrel break in occur in a couple of pistols, but I personally think it is rare.

The cryo treatment is also touted as making cleaning easier. If it did, it did not help enought to really impress me. I don't know if it increased velocity as I did not Chrony during this experiment. If it does, I think it would show the same relationship in pistol vs rifle concerning accuracy. Maybe a very slight increase (10-15fps???). If you are interested in a copy of the test (If I can find it - may still be lurking on the hard drive of the computer I don't use much anymore). E-mail me and I will try to get a copy out to you or send it to some one who can properly post it (graphics and all) to this forum.

Would I do it again. Yes, but only on my primary defensive weapon (only my life, and maybe others, depends on it)and any very very serious target pistol (which I don't own any of) under the following condition; I could get it done cheap(<$35)or free. A decrease in group size of 1/4" at 25 yards seems almost a rediculously small improvement in a defensive handgun, but I also carry a spare magazine when many don't They say "If 8 or 12 won't solve the problem, your too deep in the poop to get out anyway" I think they are full of it. A 1/4" improvement might mean the difference in a loved one living or dying if you were forced to make a sniper type shot with a pistol at 15+ yards.

By the way, expending so much ammunition, having numerous handguns and getting so many of them cryoed doesn't mean I am rich, it just means that I am a gun nut like the rest of you, borrowed a couple of guns, and got much of the ammo and all of the cryo work for free. Gotta choose your friends right!
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TEX

Any of you folks going to the GSSF shoot in San Antonio, December of 99?
 

Bullmoose

New member
My understanding was that the cryo treatment was to stress relieve the bbl. I talked to Dan Lilja about it last year and as I remember he felt there was some improvement in longevity, but not a measurable improvement in accuracy. I understand that some custom bbls makers do an old fashion heat treatment stress relieve twice before they send them out. I don't remember what temperature they are heated to and I think they are just air quenched. My heat treating experience was a summer job at a heat treating shop the summer that I turned 16, 49 years ago. No expert here. Jim
PS: I would recommend that anyone interested in this services talk to the bbl makers themself. Douglas, Lilja, etc... They do not all agree, by the way. Cut rifling vs button rifling might enter into the discussion.

[This message has been edited by JImDee (edited June 10, 1999).]
 

AC

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I cryo'd a Marlin leveraction when I had the action out of the stock for refinishing. Testing wasn't real rigorous but several loads were tested before and after and then again after firelapping. There was no improvement with the cryogenic treatment, but the fire lapping did increase accuracy. I get a warm fuzzy feeling about the barrel life aspect but that is all taken on faith. I do remember reading about a gun maker who said his tools [cutters] lasted over twice as long after this treatment, so I think there is something to it.
 

Mantas

New member
There is an article in the new issue of American Rifleman on Cryogenic tempering.

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Be a statistic.
 

chucko

New member
Nick,

I just received my new issue yesterday. He may be backpedling a bit after many unfavorable letters, but be claims that Below 300 of Indiana's process axtually works.

I had it done to the 10/22 that Briley built for me. Its a great shooter, but I don't know if it is any better than if it hadn't been done.

Chuck
 
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