Decocker Question.

[tynman]

I just bought a Walthers PPK/S 380 ACP and I forgot to try this on the range. So I just would like to ask you guys and get the info before I go to the range again with the pistol cause who know when that will be.

When you have the mag loaded in the pistol and pull the slide back and put a round into the chamber when you press the decocker will it fire that round in the chamber?

As of right now this is the only pistol I own with a decocker.
Thanks ahead of time.

 

[weblance]

It will not fire the round. Dont point it at your head when you do this though, as all mechanical things can, and do, malfunction.

 

[tynman]

Lol thanks. And I would never point it at my head or anyone else's loaded or unloaded. But when I was playing with it in my basement being not loaded it just seemed like it would have fired the round if it had one in it. So when I took it to the range I was going to point it down range put a round in it and then push the decoker to see if it would go off. But I forgot so I just wanted to run it by you guy's that have more of these decoker pistols.
Again thank you for the info.

 

[Theohazard]

Most guns with decockers work that way; when they're decocked the hammer falls just like when the trigger is pulled, so they seem like they could fire. But they won't. The Beretta M9 was the first gun where I noticed this. At first I had the same thought you had, but when I got used to it and learned about all the safeguards preventing it from firing, I stopped worrying.

Weblance is 100% correct, the gun will not fire when decocked. That said, of course you should always point it in a safe direction when decocking, but judging from your posts it seems like you already have the right attitude when it comes to safety.

 

[Elerius]

If the decocker fired the round, there would be no reason for it to exist. You would just decock it by pulling the trigger.

There was a manual for a pistol, but I forget which one, that talked about the decocking sequence and stated something like "when you press the decocker, the hammer will fall forwards. While this may look alarming, it is perfectly safe and will not fire the round in the chamber."

I thought it was amusing and I guess it stuck with me.

 

[Bozz10mm]

When I bought my S&W 39-2 back in 1980, I was very leery about decocking it with a round in the chamber. I was always expecting it to fire when the hammer dropped. For some reason, I never felt that way with my 1006. But still, I always point both in a safe direction when doing so.

 

[RickB]

If the decocker fired the round, there would be no reason for it to exist. You would just decock it by pulling the trigger.

And after you decocked and the gun fired, you'd have to decock again, which would fire the gun again, you'd have to decock again . . .
Not to mention the damage you could do to your hand if the gun fired while you were manipulating the safety/decocker on the slide!

 

[Bart Noir]

Bozz, when you look into the slide cutout for the hammer of those S&W guns, you see a big piece of metal rotate up as the decocking safety is lowered. That big piece of metal keeps the hammer and the firing pin from making contact.

And that is before the firing pin block is even considered, the thing that must move out of the way for the firing pin to move and cannot move out of the way unless the trigger is all the way back.

So that S&W 39 was entirely safe when it was being decocked. But always point in a safe direction when decocking so that you don't break an important gun handling habit.

Bart Noir

 

[weblance]

I wish decockers worked like the Sig Mosquito. It is a "soft" decock. It doesnt let the hammer snap down, but drops it gently. The SAFETY on the Mosquito, on the other hand, will get your blood flowing, because it WILL let the hammer drop, if the trigger is pulled. I dont have any other pistols that operate that way.

 

[tynman]

Well thanks you everyone for clearing this up for me. Cause I was a little funny feeling about using it intil I tried it at the range or get some good info from people who have this pistol and other pistols with decockers.

 

[James K]

The common P.38 works like the small Walthers, with which it shares some design features. But more caution is needed with the P.38, since the wartime guns have been known to have the safety fail when the hammer drops, allowing the gun to fire (and empty the magazine VERY rapidly!).

The original design would not fail, but the HWaA requested the change, over the objections of Walther, because it was a few pfennig cheaper (and, in fairness, those failures were unknown before the poor quality control in late war guns). The post-war P.38 and P1 reverted to the original Walther design and cannot fire when the decocker is used.

Jim

 

[44 AMP]

A Decocker is NEVER supposed to fire the gun.

There are two basic kinds of "decockers". One type is a safety that decocks (drops the hammer) and also puts the gun on safe. The other just decocks the gun.

There is always a possibility that the decocker will fail in a manner that fires the gun. Very, very remote possibility, but its always there, so ALWAYS point in a safe direction when decocking.

I have actually seen one fail, in the weirdest of ways. Back in the early 90s, a new Walther (p5 I think, but am not sure, can find out from a friend in a day or two).

At the range, friend's gun, which he has been carrying for about 6mo. Another friend asks to try it. Friend#2 loads, aims downrange, decocks, (so he can try the DA pull), BANG!!!

Gun owner takes it, checks everything, loads, decocks, everything normal. EXCEPT he holds gun tilted sideways when decocking. (short thumbs)

We test. Everytime the gun was held vertically (normal shooting grip) and decocked, it fired! When tilted sideways and decocked, it did not fire.

Gunsmith was amazed, too. "Never seen one do that before..." It was broken, but in just such a way that when tilted sideways, the broken parts lined up and worked. One for the books, I guess, but it did happen.

NEVER trust any decocker or safety 100%. ALWAYS keep the muzzle in a safe direction, just in case.

 

[Bart Noir]

NEVER trust any decocker or safety 100%. ALWAYS keep the muzzle in a safe direction, just in case.

44, with your story I see that the above may be the most important safety info I have ever read in a forum. Nothing is perfect and if a Walther can be wrong, anything can.

From now on, with all due respect to the N.C.I.S. show, I'll refer to the above as:

Rule No. 44

Bart Noir

 

[btmj]

Yes, I always keep the muzzle in a safe direction when decocking. It is no different than racking a slide on any auto pistol... muzzle must be in a safe direction because it is remotely possible (very very remotely possible) for a round to fire as the slide is released.

With long guns, it is a bit more common to have a malfunction which fires a round as the action is cycled. I have experienced it on a pump shotgun... luckily we were shooting trap, and the gun was pointed down range anyway... but I about soiled my pants.

 

[JNad]

If it puts your mind at ease any, you can try this test.

Observing all normal safety rules, keeping the gun pointed in a safe direction, and in this case perhaps wearing some safety glasses. Find a new unsharpened pencil with eraser. Insert the pencil into the barrel with the muzzle pointed slightly up. Decock the gun using the decocker. The hammer will fall abrubtly, but the pencil will not move.

If you choose, you can try the same thing again but this time pull the trigger. BE CAREFUL! The pencil will fly out of the barrel.

This shows you beyond any shadow of a doubt that the round in the chamber, barring any mechanical failure, will not fire when being decocked in spite of the abrubt hammer fall. It is also a useful test should you ever purchase a used semi auto, and need to check decocker functionality before putting down cash.

 

[3.Shot.Group.]

I know of one LEO that shot himself through the hand while playing with the decocker on his pistol.

I don't know how he managed to do it, but I did see the bandage on his hand, and he said "I was playing with the decocker and it went off".

I'm thinking he failed to read the directions.

 

[vito]

I know that not everyone likes them, but I wish I had the decocker feature on all of my semi-autos. I have a Ruger P97DC and I always use the decocker when I keep the gun in Condition 1 with a round in the chamber and 8 in the mag. Since it takes longer pull on the trigger I know that the first round will not be fired accidentally. For a carry gun, not having a round chambered significantly reduces the value of being armed, as the extra action of pulling the receiver back to load a round could be the extra time between effective self defense and being shot, plus it takes both hands to accomplish. In guns without a decocker, you either use the manual safety (if the gun is so equipped) or have a moderate risk of accidental discharge when drawing your weapon.

 

[carguychris]

Insert the pencil into the barrel with the muzzle pointed slightly up. Decock the gun using the decocker. The hammer will fall abrubtly, but the pencil will not move... If you choose, you can try the same thing again but this time pull the trigger. BE CAREFUL! The pencil will fly out of the barrel.

<emphasis mine>

FWIW the pencil won't necessarily go flying, particularly if the gun has an inertial firing pin. These are less common in DA/SA pistols than SAO designs, as most DA/SA pistols incorporate some sort of physical firing pin block, which arguably renders an inertial pin unnecessary or redundant; however, they're still found in some DA/SA pistols such as the Beretta Series 81 and the CZ 82/83.

This is a somewhat trivial point, but OTOH I don't want anyone to erroneously conclude that their pistol is broken because it won't send a pencil flying across the room like a S&W TDA will.

 

[RickB]

If I put a pencil down the barrel, on any handgun, and pull the trigger, the pencil had darn well better go flying!
If the firing pin is thrust forward, by hammer or striker, with enough energy to pop a primer, it will eject a pencil from the barrel.
There is no mechanical device blocking the firing pin or striker when the trigger is pulled.

 

[Cemo]

If your Walther PPK/s is used, you might want to check with Walther. There was a recall on them S&W made Walther PPK/s about 6 to 8 years ago. They were known to fire when using the decocker. New ones you don't have to worry about.