Dances with Wolves rifle error...

[Mike Irwin]

Caught part of Dances with Wolves last night, and saw something I'd never seen before...

Generally it's a well-done movie firearms wise.

The protagonist, Lt. Dunbar, has what appears to be a Model 1860 Henry rifle with him at his outpost.

In a scene that shows him fortifying the place for an expected Sioux attack, it shows the Henry laying across a wooden box with a handful of extra cartridges next to it.

They're centerfire rifle rounds, and look VERY much like .45-70s.

Which didn't enter service until 1873. And wasn't even conceived of until after the Civil War.

I've seen that scene a half dozen times, but this is the first time that ever jumped out at me.

 

[jmr40]

Now I'm gonna have to watch that movie again. There are really lots of errors in all movies, not just gun related. When you understand how they are filmed and edited it is no wonder. Scenes that we see back to back were often filmed months and thousnds of miles apart then edited to seem they were filmed at the same time. At least some parts are filmed 2-3 years before the movie is released and props used in one scene are no longer available for another.

I saw an interview where an actress was interviewed about a movie she had been in. She lost about 50 lbs for the role. Over a year later, after she gained the weight back, they asked her to come in to re-shoot a scene. Sure enough, if you pay attention to the movie she is much heavier for just a minute in the middle of the movie.

 

[gearhounds]

Hollywood is Hollywood. There are very few movies where what you see that is firearms related is factual. My favorite pet peeve has always been a protagonist that wanders from place to place, firing as he goes, without ever making so much as a single mag exchange. Even if you gave the benefit of the doubt (exchanges behind cover and off camera) no mag carriers, or pockets stuffed with mags. Just a never ending stream of bullets.

 

[BarryLee]

I don’t remember the move/TV show but the character hears a hammer being cocked behind him and the camera slowly pulls back to reveal someone holding a GLOCK.

 

[Eazyeach]

Barrylee, was that Sons of Anarchy? I noticed the same thing in an episode and I almost turned it off it was so ridiculous.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Trust me, I know Hollyweird is Hollyweird.

That's just one that had never before noticed in the many times I've seen that particularly scene.

 

[RC20]

Now you are going to have to remind me, it was post Civil War was it not?

Can't say I pay close attention to that stuff, the gross end sometimes is bad enough!

Can't say why exactly, its kind of sappy, but I do like that movie.

Maybe shades of my folks who were rescued by an Atabasan man back in the late 40s.

That always was part of my perspective on cultures and people in the best way.

 

[joe45c]

Also there are a few close up scenes of him shooting his Henry and the brass magazine follower is all the way down next to the receiver, meaning the gun was empty.

 

[Hawg]

Also there are a few close up scenes of him shooting his Henry and the brass magazine follower is all the way down next to the receiver, meaning the gun was empty.

I do believe it was empty for the entire movie.

 

[Pezo]

The clicking noise in movie guns is annoying. They do it with every gun. Glocks, striker fire uncocked da revolvers. You name it. I pick my guns up. They don't click. I'll bet there are some non gun owner people who probably believe they all guns click when lifted up. Ugh! We should start a petition to end it.

 

[Scorch]

Never really liked that movie, lots of mistakes that should have been easy to avoid. Probably the biggest ones, the uniforms shown are from the wrong time period, and the flag at the fort has 50 stars on it. Center-fire cartridges for a rim-fire rifle. The wound on his forehead that moves. His horse is a line-back dun, but it changes several times during the film. His saddle is not a cavalry saddle, it is a modern riding saddle. Yes, I know, lighten up. Hey, how about "do your homework, Hollywood".

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Now you are going to have to remind me, it was post Civil War was it not?"

No. It was set during the Civil War.


"I do believe it was empty for the entire movie."

They decided it would be better to give Costner an empty gun after the death toll among extras hit 170.

 

[Husqvarna]

I actually liked Tom Cruises dances with samurais more than dances with wolves

very beautiful movice, Zwick doesn't do a while lot but most is great, Legends of the Fall being a top 10movie for me

I mean I am straight but god damn Brad Pitt looks great in that
and only have "cool" manly scenes

it is both a great western,(or northern I guess ) gangster and war movie

 

[Paul B.]

Seems there are at least two versions of Dancing with Wolves, the theatrical one and a special edition which just much longer and frankly boring as hell in many spots. Damn near as long as Gone with the Wind. A full 3 hours and 56 minutes. I just checked. Messed up a fairly decent movie making it that long.
IIRC, the ammo that was too long for the Henry rifle was probably for the Sharp's carbines stored as the abandoned fort. Probably were too long for the Sharpe's as well as I think in that time frame they probably still took a paper cartridge, IIRC.
Paul B.

 

[SaxonPig]

That Steve McQueen series had 45/70s in his ammo belt for his cut down M92 in 44-40. They want the audience to be able to see the cartridges.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I gotta watch Dances with Wolves again now to see the cartridges next to the Henry. I've seen it a million times, but I never saw that detail. In one scene you can clearly see the rifle is unloaded because the follower tab is back against the frame. But you would have to be familiar with the Henry to know that.

Hollywood messed with guns all the time. They used to cut down Trapdoors to make them look like flintlock pistols for pirate movies. They would remove the forend from 1873 Winchesters and 1892 Winchesters to make them look like Henry rifles.

I was watching Winchester '73 for the billionth time the other night. I noticed in the scene where Lynn shoots Waco Johnny Dean, as Dean is staggering around before he dies he fires several rapid fire shots from his pistol into the ground. As he dropped the pistol it was clearly a modern double action revolver. That's how he fired it so quickly.

Same thing in The Man who Shot Liberty Valance. If you look closely the gun James Stewart uses to shoot Lee Marvin is a modern double action revolver with a fake ejector rod scabbed onto it to make it look like a SAA.

 

[Jim Watson]

I had an old Gun Digest with an article about studio guns.
A lot of actors could not be bothered to learn to handle a single action, lots of dummy ejector rods. One, looked like it started out as a New Service, even had the butt reshaped plowhandle.
Many Colts with webs added under the barrel like an 1875 Remington.
Rock Hudson's 'Seminole' troops had actual cartridge conversion or Open Top revolvers, long before they were actually made.

 

[Fivesense]

My pet peeve is that everyone in every movie seems to cock their gun, even when they are using strikers.

 

[Paul B.]

Gentlemen. You all seem to forget that the Hollywood version of the Colt single action revolver was redesigned to shoot 222 times without reloading.
Paul B.

 

[reinert]

I haven't seen "Dances" for quite a while now, but I believe I remember during the buff hunt scene, Dunbar's Henry jams fairly early in the chase, and you can see when it happens. Costner shoots, works the lever, and the gun jams. You can see him trying to close the action, but it won't. Then, throughout the whole hunt scene, and every time they shown Dunbar riding, the action is still open, still jammed. I can only imagine that that scene was a one take deal...

Also, as "Dances" trivia, I knew the fellow who actually owned the mules and wagons that Timmons drove. Timmons (Robert Pastorelli) wasn't really driving them. When Dunbar and Timmons leave Ft. Hays with the wagons heading for Ft. Sedgewick, look below the boots of the two men, and you'll see a board knocked out of the wagon box. You'll see another set of reigns/lines coming out of the space where the knocked-out board was. I believe there's curtains there, too (again, haven't seen the movie in quite a spell). That was my friend doing the driving, and talking to his mules "behind the curtains," quite literally. Then, when Timmons leaves Ft. Sedgewick and you see the eggs bouncing on the seat next to him, that was my friend, and not Pastorelli, driving his team and wagons himself, and having a blast.