Czech VZ 24 and Romanian 8mm ammo?

[scoobysnacker]

Recently inherited my father's VZ 24, and it was a joy to shoot it for the first time the other day. I had some surplus Czech ammo that came with it, on stripper clips.

Don't have much left, and I see that surplus ammo has really become scarce for this gun. In searching, I've come across some "new" Romanian ammo at various places, steel cased with green lacquer sealing the case. There seems to be some poor reviews out there, but those look tied to older German mausers.

I'm rolling the dice and picking some up, does anyone have any experience with it in this rifle?

 

[Mobuck]

I've read some reports of splits or case head separations but there's some very worn and/or out of spec 8x57 chambers which could account for such things.
Wear good safety glasses and inspect fired cases for evidence of possible problems vs. just blasting away.

 

[emcon5]

I have heard of some of the Romanian stuff being out of spec, slightly over sized. I know a guy with a MG34 that won't chamber it, but the same ammo works/runs fine in a buddies MG42.

I would start buying a box, make sure it works.

 

[scoobysnacker]

Yeah, I'm going to get a batch and test it out.

This is around on different sites, some have different packaging, but they are all the same: steel cased, green lacquer sealed "new" stuff, not the older surplus with the red lacquer.

Different sellers all claim it to be good for "modern" Mausers, which I read to be the .323 bore diameter, not the older .318 diameter.

The gun in question is a VZ 24, from everything I've read it's the larger diameter (by default, they didn't start making these until after the change). The gun looks a little rough in finish, but I know it's solid mechanically- my dad bought it maybe 20 years ago for under a hundred, the same time I picked up a Yugo SKS, pristine in cosmoline, all matching, for maybe $200 or so. Dad never shot it, he got diagnosed with a detached retina right afterwards, and it went into a closet forever afterwards.

There's some rust on the buttpad, that I went after and removed most of with oil and a little rubbing.

My son and I took it to the range the other day, and it shot great. Also shot his Mosin Nagant too, we just got one of those; he's a fan of surplus bolts. So we cleaned them per the windex/ ballistol "moose milk" technique, and I wanted to get some more shooting rounds.

We don't have easy access to an outdoor range, but we're fortunate to have an indoor range nearby that is an old, concrete bunker that they fill the back in with clay; it's definitely old-school, and they will let you shoot anything, up to and including 50 cal. Guy absolutely doesn't care if you have steel core, in fact he says use it since it's cheaper !

I guess I now have to get into reloading, as my son would rather shoot his Mosin and 2 Mausers (we also have an Argentine), than shoot 9mm.

I'll post on how this does.

 

[emcon5]

It appears to be sold through a few channels, "Hot Shot" (Hot Shot is a Century brand I believe), it is also available from Midway as "PW Arms" and from the arseholes at Sportsmans Guide unbranded.

I assume it is all the same stuff, all of them have the exact same specs.

 

[ttarp]

I tried some of that PW Arms ammo, and wasn't really impressed, it was pretty inconsistently loaded. Also it was advertised on the box as non steel core, but a magnet would stick to the bullets quite well.

At any rate, hope it works out better for you than it did for me.

 

[scoobysnacker]

I tried some of that PW Arms ammo, and wasn't really impressed, it was pretty inconsistently loaded. Also it was advertised on the box as non steel core, but a magnet would stick to the bullets quite well.

At any rate, hope it works out better for you than it did for me.

OK- so, tell me more about your experience! We've (my son and I) shot my dad's VZ 24 once, only about 10 rds (we brought other guns and ammo, we didn't want to exhaust the supply we had onhand).

Did this stuff chamber: that's one of the complaints I've read, that it won't even chamber in some guns. I assume it did for you... what did you shoot it out of?

Steel-core, non... a non-issue with my range. I've asked, they absolutely don't care about that. Other local ranges do, but they're further away... so it's a win/win for me.

Inconsistently loaded... I know that's hard to quantify. I don't have a lot of time on this rifle, or on a lot of long guns in general, which makes it tougher for me to wrap around. Did you think any of it was dangerously high?
Maybe give me a 9mm analogy... you can get soft range loads, you can get +P loads. For that matter, you can use pistol caliber analogies- like the difference between a soft 9mm and a .40 S&W +P from the same style of gun. Would you say it's that variable?

Were there any duds or misfires?

Thanks ahead of time for any response. Keep in mind, my expected usage is for range usage, just to take the gun out and go "bang". We're not shooting outdoors at longer range, we're not scoping it, we're not even sitting down most of the time... we're standing and shooting it at 25 yds at paper, absolutely just for the fun of it.

 

[ttarp]

I was shooting it out of a German K98 that had been rebarreled, it chambered and shot fine, didn't have any duds either.

The issue I had with the steel core bullets is it said on the box itself that they weren't, the false advertising led me to doubt whether it was even non corrosive, so I treated it like surplus ammo.

What I mean by inconsistent is the point of impact could vary up to 4 inches in elevation, I'm sure some of that was the shooter, but I haven't had problems like that with S&B or PPU. If you're using a 9mm analogy, I don't really know, maybe subsonic to non +P HD rounds?

A buddy of mine took me along to fire his 1942 K98, he had hotshot ammo, and kept having issues with the bolt sticking.

I'd suggest only getting a box or two first just to see how you and your rifle like it before making a big purchase.

 

[scoobysnacker]

Ok, thanks, appreciate the head's up on the false advertising. I pieced together a pretty simple system (made an enema setup) to deal with corrosive, since that's all we have for the Mosin. Never had to do that with the Argentine and PPU, but then, I also haven't been able to find any surplus that anyone recommended (seems like a universal "don't" in that caliber).

I did use the enema after shooting the surplus ammo through this gun, it really wasn't too much hassle, so I will plan accordingly and treat this Romanian stuff the same.

I know, ideally, it would be nice to have it group tight. As a kid, I learned to shoot with 22's in a target program, and I was very proud of my scores and marksmanship. I'd love to be able to do the same with our surplus rifles now, but I don't have the access to that type of range... I know these guns are not meant to shoot at 25 yds (it is, sadly, what it is ) .
If I did, I'd be a lot more open to the better grades of ammo.

As it stands, my son and I are just taking these old warhorses out to bond, and do some short-range plinking.

As I type this, I find myself thinking "man, it would be nice to get outdoors somewhere, get a few hundred yards of open space, lay prone, with some good ammo, and really see what we could do". I KNOW these rifles can reach out and touch you at a distance, and once upon a time, I wasn't too bad at that.
Might have to plan a road trip for something like that.

 

[ttarp]

And it will probably do fine for your intended use, enjoy your rifle!

 

[emcon5]

ttarp, did you cut one in half? Wondering if it is really steel core, or just a mild steel jacket.

 

[scoobysnacker]

Ok, it arrived. Haven't had a chance to shoot any, a little uncertain if I should attempt or not. Of course, I've love to, but...

I did load the magazine, and ... it's stiff to close the bolt. Not horribly, if I firmly cycle it, the bolt will close and turn down. Definitely not the "beat with a hammer" I have heard of, but also not buttery smooth.

I went through a box of 20, testing, and some were fine, some were moderately stiff, some were pretty tight.



What's the consensus on this, as far as being able to use? Dangerous?

 

[emcon5]

Not dangerous. I would shoot it.

 

[scoobysnacker]

It appears that once I chamber the round once, it will chamber easier on a repeat attempt.... what, eaxctly, is the deal with these? Am I slightly bending where the case is necked, or something to that effect? If so, you sure that isn't dangerous? I'm no expert on this, (and I've never reloaded), but I want to make sure I'm not going to have it over-pressured.

The bullet does not set back any, I can't seem to visibly tell the difference between a round that chambers, a round that is very tight, or a round that was tight, then fits a lot better the second time around.

I just don't want to risk the gun blowing up in my face, so I'm trying to grasp what's happening here.

Thanks again

 

[ttarp]

The gun isn't going to blow up in your face, Mausers are very strong and safe actions, take the ammo out and shoot it.

ttarp, did you cut one in half? Wondering if it is really steel core, or just a mild steel jacket.

I happened to have one saved round laying around, I can't remember why, but I cut it in half, and like you say, it is a lead core, must be a copper washed or plated steel jacket. So I guess it was just a misinterpretation on my part.

 

[scoobysnacker]

Ok, thanks! I figured as much. But with all the negative reviews, I wasn't sure if this stuff was "crap" = poorly made but baseline functional, or "crap" = potentially dangerous and could kaboom.

Particularly, having to push down on the bolt to close it all the way, made me a little hesitant, because it's outside my experience of being able to safely shoot something that isn't smoothly chambering.

If it's just an issue of not being made well, and it's fine as long as you can close the bolt, then I'm good to go!

 

[Mk VII]

It has a flat-base bullet of about 180gns, unlike most of the surplus stuff which uses clones of the boat-tail 198gn sS bullet, so it may do better in worn bores.