CZ52

[Scribe]

Hi guys, I am researching for a novel. It is set in the London underworld in 1987. illegal guns were hard to come by and the felons had to take what they could get.
Has anyone any experience of carrying the CZ52? Could you safely carry one cocked and locked, one in the chamber, topped up magazine, in the inside pocket of a coat or jacket, assuming a large enough pocket.
As there is no legal position in the UK for civilian concealed carry, English ne'er do wells tend to carry weapons in a pocket or a waistband, so if the Old Bill shows an interest, the weapon and accoutrements can be ditched easily.
All replies gratefully received.

 

[Screwball]

Yes… you can. The safety flips down for safe, middle position (runs parallel with the barrel) is fire, and up to decock. It doesn’t lock the slide, though.

Now, the metallurgy of those parts, including the firing pin, are not the greatest. But if it isn’t worn down too much… should still work. I checked mine with the “pencil test” prior to doing the internal parts swap, as well as after. Only launched the pencil when the trigger was pulled… and not on decock.

If you have any questions about it, shoot me a PM. Gun is literally within a few steps from me, most inconvenient is opening the safe.

 

[JohnKSa]

I carried one for awhile.

It's very thin, so it conceals well in a decent holster.

Due to its weight, I don't think you could carry it in a coat pocket unless you carried something heavy to counterbalance the coat on the other side. Otherwise the coat would hang very oddly.

Inside the waistband without a holster would work ok for concealment, but the gun is really thin, very streamlined and heavy. It could easily slip down farther than you wanted it to. I wouldn't want to carry one that way for very long at all because I'd be afraid of it shifting/falling down.

There's a firing pin safety on the gun--assuming that the firing pin safety is operating properly, it would be safe to carry with a round chambered and the hammer down or cocked & locked.

 

[ligonierbill]

Could you carry it "cocked and locked"? Yes. Safely? Debatable. It's not a 1911. I have read that when they were issued, users were cautioned to point it in a safe direction when they activated the decock. Mine worked fine and never discharged. The firing pin was cast. Castings are great, but that's not a good application. They sell replacements, and I bought one. Never needed it until I decided to sell and took it out to use up my handloads. Then it broke, classic brittle fracture. But the modern replacements are fine. The pistol is big...and loud. The 7.62x25 was originally designed to penetrate light body armor.

 

[Rapidrob]

The CZ-52 is known to fire with the safety / decocker turned on-off . A member of my club used the pistols decocker in his car to "safe" the pistol to carry it into his home, the pistol fired and put a bullet through his transmission.
https://harringtonproducts.com/cz-52-safety/

 

[Scribe]

That's brilliant guys, many thanks.

 

[dwhite]

Think I'd have my character carrying a Makarov. Small, fits in the pocket, not terribly heavy. Were real easy to get for a lot of years.

You can get ANYTHING you want, ANYWHERE in the world. It's just a matter of cost.

 

[Jim Watson]

I think you could depict a crook carrying a CZ52 smuggled in from the Continent as reasonably as anything else.
Would it be safe cocked and locked? Moderately.
Would the crook know how to get to that condition? Maybe, maybe not.
Would a crook bother to top up the magazine? Less likely.

 

[amd6547]

I’d prefer to see a Russian tt33 Tokarev, perhaps with nice backstory about it being captured by Germans, then captured by a Brit on the western front, and brought home. Never turned in.
(Must admit I much prefer the Tok for my 7.62x25 pleasure, having owned both pistols.)

 

[Scribe]

Hi all,

many thanks to all who replied. your comments and suggestions are noted and most welcome.
I have researched the gun a little and most commentators agree that the Tokarev is hands down a better piece of kit and your comments support this. Karl on InRange is particularly scathing about the the CZ52. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Tokarev's lack of safety would indicate that it is best carried with an empty chamber.
The character using the piece has some experience of firearms and the dealer who sells it to him uses the sale as an opportunity to shift some awkward stock. The gun will end up broken down and dumped in either the Thames or the Grand Union Canal anyway.
The firing pin weakness is a little piece of in-depth information for the reader.
This has all been helpful, many thanks indeed.

 

[Screwball]

I have researched the gun a little and most commentators agree that the Tokarev is hands down a better piece of kit and your comments support this. Karl on InRange is particularly scathing about the the CZ52. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Tokarev's lack of safety would indicate that it is best carried with an empty chamber.

The Tokarev does have a more unique hammer setup…

If you are carrying it with an empty chamber, you’d want to make sure the hammer is fully down. There is a half cock position… which when engaged, it locks the slide and the trigger. Not a good situation to be in, if you needed to get the gun into action.

Thought process with that is you load the gun normally, with a round in the chamber. Decock the hammer to half cock, and the gun is technically safe. Pull the hammer back when drawing… good to go.

Having both, I actually like both pretty equally. But I’m sure if I took the 9mm conversion barrel away from the CZ52, I’d like the Tokarev more. [emoji41]

Considering country of origin for the Tokarev, Chinese are floating the US now (my current one, as the trigger with safety being swapped for a regular trigger gives you a correct setup as designed… no safety). But my personal favorite is the Yugo, as it is identical with the exception of a longer grip/extra round in the grip. It does have a magazine disconnect… which could be disabled by popping out a spring tab that engages the trigger assembly. Most of the Yugos prior to the move to trigger safeties had a 1911 style safety… which did work. Unsure when they started putting them in, and if it was done across the board… nor the availability of them in Europe.

 

[Willie Lowman]

I'm glad to see a writer asking questions about guns to get the details right.

 

[Jim Watson]

You may arm a fictional character pretty much as you like but:
1. The gun must be available; don't give a 1987 character a .40 S&W that came out in 1990.

2. Be correct but don't explain too much; I have seen some thrillers that read like a Jane's Infantry Weapons or Gun Digest.

Frex:
Crook: "What have you got for me, Alf?"
Supplier: "A Czech pistol, right here, Bert, only 200 quid."
Bert: "Looks awful big."
Alf: "Yes but it shoots their tommygun bullets. And it is all I have now."
Bert: "All right, here's the readies, gimme it."
Alf: "And here's an extra clip and some ammo, no extra charge."

Later:
Bert: "Dammit, Alf, that pistol won't shoot, I had to run for it."
Alf: "Playing with it in your flat, were you. Snapping it in broke the firing pin."

No need to go into minute detail, just describe enough but not too much.

 

[101combatvet]

Hi guys, I am researching for a novel. It is set in the London underworld in 1987. illegal guns were hard to come by and the felons had to take what they could get.
Has anyone any experience of carrying the CZ52? Could you safely carry one cocked and locked, one in the chamber, topped up magazine, in the inside pocket of a coat or jacket, assuming a large enough pocket.
As there is no legal position in the UK for civilian concealed carry, English ne'er do wells tend to carry weapons in a pocket or a waistband, so if the Old Bill shows an interest, the weapon and accoutrements can be ditched easily.
All replies gratefully received.

I qualified with a CZ52 when I was working with the Czech Army. Wait, actually, they were working for me. When they started importing them, I bought one for cheap; I've never shot mine. The safety should me reliable for most; however, this handgun is large and heavy so pocket carry would be silly. A shoulder holster would be the better option. The CZ 82 or 83 might be something to consider over the CZ52 hand cannon.

 

[101combatvet]

But then again, if you're into big and beautiful, go with this Czech menu item.

 

[Scribe]

All these comments are great, not just for the technical side (All of those are greatly appreciated) but the back ground behind the purchase.

But in particular

Willie Lowman. Gun lore is so complex and archane that mistakes are easy to make and I am trying to avoid them.

In one of his novels Stephen Hunter has someone state that ‘A newspaper gun story is something with a mistake in it.’

Jim Watson. Both your points hit the mark. Again, Stephen Hunter uses the first as a plot device in his book ‘Isniper.’ As for the second, I have already discarded a chapter I wrote where weapons are purchased because the detail became too much.
Also, you seem to have an excellent grasp of Luhndon lingo Guv’nor. The way you rabbit and pork sounds like you have yourself shelled out a few tons to some wideboy down the Old Kent Road for a dodgey shooter.

Regarding using the CZ52, 101combatveteran makes the point that the weapon is too big for pocket carry and a shoulder holster would be better. In 1987 the Metropolitan Police freely exercised their strong stop and search powers in London. These have always been contentious and the introduction of The Police And Criminal Evidence Act of 1984 did not restrict these in any way. It just enforced procedure of record on the practice. Despite what anti Police elements of the media, then and now proclaimed, it was and is exercised across all ethnic divides. If a person was carrying illegally and thought they might be pulled over by the Police, they might well ditch the weapon first, but if searched, a shoulder holster would be very hard to explain.
I’ll bear the Skorpion in mind for another time. The Czechs certainly like it radical.

Finally, to Dwhite. As you say, you can get anything, anywhere, anytime. If you have the cash and the connections.

Again, very many thanks all. If this opus makes it to print I will let you know.