CZ-70 vs CZ-83 to collect

[ninjarealist]

I've been seeing these listed on SOG recently. Both guns are listed as Good to Very Good condition. The CZ-70 is $200. The CZ-83 is chambered in .380 and is $270. The FFL and shipping will add almost another 50 dollars.

I plan on literally just cleaning the gun and tossing it in a ZCORR bag. Would either gun be good for this purpose and, if so, which do you think would be better?

EDIT

I'm very sorry I meant to post this in the handgun forum. I'm not sure how I get mixed up. Apologies.

EDIT

If possible, could the mods please move this thread to the proper forum?

EDIT

Thanks to the mods for moving this.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

A CZ-83 in which caliber? (They came in .32, .380 and 9x18 (9mm Makarov).

Regardless of the caliber, the CZ-83 would be the better gun if you ever had to use it in a self-defense of "hunting" situation. (And yes, I've had both.)

If you found a CZ-83 in .32, that's a fairly rare gun. They are much more common in .380, and some were available in 9x18. The almost same CZ-82 is available only in 9x18. CZ-83s were just discontinued a year or so ago, and parts are probably easily found. (They may NOT have been discontinued -- I'm not sure -- but they are no longer imported to the U.S.)

(Unless you're just collecting a CZ-50 or CZ-70 to say you have one, I can't think of a lot of good reason for such a weapon -- it's not particularly light, it quite large for the caliber (.32 acp), and while generally reliable getting some parts (like magazines) can be difficult. Mags are scarce -- and worn mags are really the most frequent cause of problems in these older, surplus guns. (I think Wolff Springs now offers mag springs for the 50/70 models.)

 

[ninjarealist]

The CZ-83 is chambered in .380

I just want to collect the gun. I have no interest in shooting it whatsoever. I just want to put it in a ZCORR bag in the hopes that it will store value and maybe even appreciate.

Is any old CZ in the US going to have a value-destroying import stamp or do I have to check with the sellers? Would these guns be bad to collect for other reasons?

There are a lot of different types of all-steel discontinued pistols on the market that I'm looking at as potential collectors but the CZs are some of the best deals I've seen on a vintage all-steel gun from a reputable manufacturer.

 

[AustinTX]

I just want to collect the gun. I have no interest in shooting it whatsoever. I just want to put it in a ZCORR bag in the hopes that it will store value and maybe even appreciate.

If you want to invest in something, there are far better options than either of these guns. For that matter, there are far better options that guns as a class. Guns generally make a poor investment, but many will hold their (used) value, more or less.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Any commonly available gun bought in hopes of the buyer seeing true value appreciation needs to be:

1) relatively unique;
2) possible a gun a with higher value (because it's a special version of the model in question), made in smaller numbers [i.e., a bit rare];
3) either "new in box" or close to it, with all the original papers, box, and certainly unfired;
4) purchased for a very reasonable (low) price.

It would help if the gun was a high-end gun, and the CZ-83 is NOT that (although it's a very good .380).

While CZs are held in high regard by a relatively small (but growing) segment of the U.S. shooting public, most of that high regard is focused on the 75 and subsequent versions. But again, it's not because they're considered potentially collectible, but because they're considered great values for the cost.

Inflation is the killer -- for example: a gun bought for $500 in 1990 would have to have been sold for $892 in 2014 (the most recent figures available for rates of inflation as I key this) to just break even. By break even I mean take the money from the sale that would let you buy something TODAY that $500 would have bought in 1990.. If you can't at least break even on BUYING POWER, you've really lost money.

Some folks participating here do make money by holding onto certain guns, but they are the exception not the rule. And darned few of them who do well, do so with gun they bought stuck them in the safe as an investment. A lot of the folks who are happy with their sales shot those guns, maybe even babied them -- but used them as they would any gun. I'd argue that most of them bought great guns that others also wanted originally, and still want.

I think the folks who make most of the money from gun sales are collectors and dealers, some of whom are very astute business people who buy low, and sell to folks like us.

 

[ninjarealist]

If you want to invest in something, there are far better options than either of these guns. For that matter, there are far better options that guns as a class. Guns generally make a poor investment, they they'll generally hold their (used) value, more or less.

I understand what you're saying and let me assure you that it's not my intention to try and make money off of guns. If I wanted to do that I'd need to get an FFL as a bare minimum. And like you say, for the average consumer there are much better choices than guns if you want to invest. I am heavily invested in those types of assets.

I guess really where my desire to collect comes from is that, as a new gun owner, I see all of these beautiful old historic guns at gun shows and always think, "I wish I owned that gun but can't afford it." So the hope is that if I put enough discontinued (or soon to be discontinued) guns in vapor bags I will wind up with at least a few guns like that.

And honestly, in trying to express my motives (in response to your post) I'm starting to think that the CZ-83 is the better candidate. The CZ-70 is cool but it's ultimately the clone of a more historic gun. The CZ-83 itself is a more original and innovative design...is my logic, though I have no idea if it's well founded.

 

[Independent George]

I can give you one good reason to collect the CZ-83: it's a lot of fun to shoot. Like the Beretta 84, it's a mid-size, all-steel .380, which is practically extinct these days. The weight and the larger grip size really makes it quite a bit more pleasant to shoot than the micro guns like the LCP, and the DA trigger is incredibly smooth. It is very easy to shoot accurately in both DA and SA mode, and can be carried condition 1 if you choose.

So no, it won't be a collector's item, but you won't regret having one in the safe.

 

[tallball]

I got a CZ70 LNIB from SOG. My MiL wanted my FEG 32acp so much that I let her have it and bought the CZ70 to replace it. The CZ is in excellent condition, it looked unfired when I got it. I have taken it to the range a few times and it has functioned flawlessly. That being said, I dislike it anyway. It has more felt recoil than I expected, maybe because it's smaller than the FEG. I don't like the way it balances or feels in my hand. I should have just kept my eyes open for another FEG.

 

[TunnelRat]

I have no interest in shooting it whatsoever. I just want to put it in a ZCORR bag in the hopes that it will store value and maybe even appreciate.

It is a service pistol produced on a fairly large scale. It's popularity is based on being a good shooter and as a mil-surp pistol is relatively cheap. I don't see it appreciating any time soon.

 

[Cheapshooter]

I just want to collect the gun. I have no interest in shooting it whatsoever. I just want to put it in a ZCORR bag in the hopes that it will store value and maybe even appreciate.

Why???? The're already used guns! If you were talking about rare, or even semi rare, low production new, unfired guns it might be worth it. The guns you are taking about are not uncommon, nor unfired, but range from like new to G-VG.
Great shooters, but not collectors.
All my guns are collected, out of the safe, and taken to the range regularly! They all get their turn being used. Then they are cleaned, maintained, and stored until their next turn to do what they were made to do....shoot!

 

[Onward Allusion]

ninjarealist
The CZ-83 is chambered in .380

I just want to collect the gun. I have no interest in shooting it whatsoever. I just want to put it in a ZCORR bag in the hopes that it will store value and maybe even appreciate.

Neither guns are collectibles in the true sense of the word. Both are mil-surp and are suppose to be shooters. The CZ-83 can be a decent HD/SD gun with 13+1, however.

The CZ-70 chambered in 32 ACP is way heavy for that mouse caliber. Makes no sense as a CCW when other more appropriate guns in that caliber are available. Makes no sense as a HD gun when a full-sized 9mm would generate as much recoil as the CZ-70.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Neither guns are collectibles in the true sense of the word. Both are mil-surp and are suppose to be shooters.

I'll agree that neither are collectibles in the common use of the term, but the CZ-83 is not milsurp. (In fact, I'm not sure that the CZ-83 was ever used by the Czech military - and as the Makarov was the Soviet Bloc standard elsewhere, it's unlikely to have ever seen military service*.) The CZ-83 was created for commercial/civilian sales.

The CZ-83 was available in .32 ACP, .380 and 9x13. The CZ-82, the true military variant, was available only in 9x18 (a Soviet Bloc military round, i.e., 9mm Makarov.)

*Note: just noticed, on the WIKI site, that the CZ-83, in 9x18, is being used by North Korea, Vietnam, and Slovakia as a military weapon! I doubt that any of those CZ-83s will ever make it to the usual MILSURP channels. (Well, MAYBE Slovakia, but Slovakian military isn't very big -- less than 15,000 in their entire military and only a small portion would be issued CZ-83s...)


.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I understand what you're saying and let me assure you that it's not my intention to try and make money off of guns. If I wanted to do that I'd need to get an FFL as a bare minimum.

ONLY if you turn your buying and selling into a business (i.e. a source of income and NOT an investment), then you'd need a 01-FFL, a special facility/place of business, local permits and licenses, just like other retail businesses, etc. Getting an FFL isn't as easy as it once was. There's nothing illegal about making money off of guns you own if you're not an FFL -- but it's not that easy! And if you start acting like a DEALER, the ATF would probably be on you like stink or crap...

You can get an 03-Curio & Relic Federal Firearms License pretty easily, and that would help with the purchase of many MILSURP guns, including the CZ-82. I keep an 03/C&R license because it allows me to buy things from Midway and Brownells at a discount. I've pretty much lost interest in C&R weapons, although I still have a few.

 

[Onward Allusion]

RE: 83

Dunno. If not mil-surp, then some kind of surplus import. Gunbroker has quiet a few. Some with the same holster as the CZ-82. I also seem to remember that the ones chambered in .380 could fit 13 in the mag.

 

[willr]

I do like my CZ70. The grip, of course was undomfortable, so I put on one of those slip-on Hogue things, which made a great difference. I don't know anything of the CZ83, but I do like my CZ70.

willr

 

[peggysue]

CZs are neat pistols

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Dunno. If not mil-surp, then some kind of surplus import. Gunbroker has quiet a few....

Indeed. I saw 7 or 8 out there, today, including a "STAINLESS" model. (That stainless model isn't stainless, but Satin Nickel. The seller doesn't know what he's offering!)

Some of the guns on Gunbroker may be milsurp, but I'd expect military guns to be issued in 9x18, not .380. The fact that ALL of the GB guns are 380, and that one of them is nickel-plated, suggests that they were made for the civilian market somewhere in Europe or the Middle East, and the fact that several different sellers involved also implies it's not a bunch of MILSURP guns being dropped on the market.