Cross-draw? Sure, why not.

[Skyguy]

It's a dirty shame!

Most novice gunslingers believe that strong side carry is the only way to go, hardly considering cross-draw.
Why? Because some 'expert' told them that cross-draw is too slow, that it sweeps the target and is more prone to a miss. Whereas eu-ed/strong side/duty carry is faster and draws 'into' the target and more prone to a hit.

That may be true. But, remember Joe, a quick draw toward the target is no guarantee of a com hit or even a meaningful hit or even a hit. It's just fast......and only marginally accurate past spittin' distance. Try it.

Cross-draw isn't for everyone and it's not about to replace strong side/duty carry, but consider this:

Most draw situations will 'never' require a sub one second fast draw. You know, the "cowboy fast draw".

Fast-draw can be fun, competitive and a great game to master, but it has little to do with a strong side-concealed carry scenario.
In the real world, by the time one clears their garmints for the draw, the quick-draw is nullified. It's simply past tense.

Therefore, I carry cross-draw most of the time and for several logical reasons:

1. Cross-draw is very concealable. No bulge in the handgun area. It hugs tight to the body.

2. Comfort. Best carry for 8-12 hr. comfort. No banging gun on walls, chairs, door jambs, etc.

3. Quick draw from (dive for cover) kneeling and supine positions.

4. It's a very quick draw from auto and seated. Strong side carry buries the gun in the seat.

5. Excellent weapon retention with strike opportunities in case of a scuffle.

6. Easy and discreet fast access from covert carry....e.g. Walk with your hand on your handgun.

7. Excellent weak hand draw. Try 'that' with a strong side carry.

8. Easier to draw in running/dynamic situations.

Along with Lasergrips, efmj ammo and lethal striking, cross-draw is a recommended option taught in my Do-Or-Die private self defense classes.

cross-draw

Strike from weapon retention

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[Phxdog]

Skyguy - Excellent information. I would add another plus: harder to have the weapon taken from you from behind. You kind of intimate that in #5. Your point on #7, weak hand access is one I had not considered.

BTW, the guy in the pict (you?) is demonstrating IMO one of the most important aspects of survival - don't look like a victim. I think most BGs would decide to pass on that guy and go on to easier marks.

 

[model 25]

Well I hope it works out for you I won't carry cross draw for several reasons. I won't telegraph my draw by reaching across my body. I won't have the butt forward for easy access by my enemy. Cross draw does not conceal well. Cross draw gives a close enemy more time to stop your draw. Cross draw is slow.

The only time I would even think about cross draw is in a vehicle.

25

 

[pax]

Skyguy ~

I carry strong-side appendix. It's every bit as fast as hip or behind-hip carry and has all the advantages of cross-draw.

pax

 

[Rob P.]

I won't telegraph my draw by reaching across my body. I won't have the butt forward for easy access by my enemy. Cross draw does not conceal well. Cross draw gives a close enemy more time to stop your draw. Cross draw is slow.

Actually almost all of that is false hype.

You can't help but telegraph ANY drawing movement. Reach behind for SOB, Strong Side, or Cross draw and you'll need to move some article of clothing in order to grasp your weapon. In any situation where you need that weapon, such movement will draw attention. Ie: you just telegraphed your draw.

Butt forward makes easy access by your enemy? How many times have you been mano-a-mano and face to face with someone who is going to kill you yet they had no weapon already presented? If your holster is properly built your weapon will be properly retained in that holster even in the event of a fistfight. IF your carry rig won't do that, dump it for one that will because eventually you'll be picking up your weapon after it falls out in public.

Cross draw conceals just as well as strong-side. It's still a huge lump of steel in a holster on your belt.

Cross draw is slow? Since when? Many of the old west "shootists" used a cross draw and they survived against many who used a conventionally rigged holster. Slow is also relative. If a specific person is "slow" then they'll be slow no matter what carry method is used.

The ONLY problem with cross draw is that during the draw and presentation of the weapon, at some point the weapon WILL BE pointed at your own body. This makes the possibility that you'll shoot yourself higher than SOB or Strongside carry. However, given the incident reports where people have shot themselves in the leg at places like Gunsite and Thunder Ranch, even strongside carry has that risk.

 

[Capt. Charlie]

The only real disadvantage I can see would be the tendency to "oversweep" the target and swing back to recover, but like all else, practice would do a lot to overcome that.

For a someone wearing a sport coat or suit though, I think a cross-draw at 10 or 11 o'clock would make for a very fast & efficient system.

 

[Edward429451]

Crossdraw has a lot going for it. I don't use it much. Long trips in the car and sometimes in the winter where it'd be faster to reach into the coat rather than into the coat AND behind.

I suspect model 25 has never really tried a crossdraw holster but just thought about it and decided it wasn't for him.

#6 don't telegraph anything if you carry yourself properly. You summed it up real well skyguy.

 

[OBIWAN]

In close encounters of the unexpected kind

You will turn which way exactly

With a strong side holster I can turn my body and use my weak hand to fend off the attacker while either drawing my weapon OR simply keeping it out of reach

With a crossdraw I think I am setting myself up for a gun grab(or at least a struggle for control) either way

Either I put it closer to him OR I put it in perfect alignment for them to draw it

 

[Easy E]

Something else to consider is body type...

I'm 6'1". I have a high waist and very long arms. To draw from strong side I have to bring my arm up at a difficult angle to clear leather. It's cumbersome and slow. I've struggled with it for several years with little improvement in draw speed. I'm currently looking at cross draw holsters. Haven't settled on one yet.

 

[CobrayCommando]

If you think crossdraw is slow or advertises, watch that episode of Miami Vice with the Argentinian assassin played by an ISPC guy... You can do it so fast that your opponnent doesn't have a chance to react.

 

[shield20]

I can see it as an option for some, but since I shoot, and stand, in a modified weaver "interview' stance, I would rather keep the gun behind my hip instead of in front of it on the weak side closer to most adversaries. I also would rather be able to quickly point shoot from the top of the holster instead of having to bring the gun around atleast 90 degrees AND up 90 degrees -all between myself, and within reach of, the BG - before the gun is on target. I also prefer a 'straight up into front sight acquisition and on target' then a 'swing around, stop and up' draw style. I also don't underestimate the saving of ANY time in getting my piece on target - being faster and saving split seconds will probably help me win. I also enjoy being able to conceal just fine with an open jacket - makes the draw and reloads fast and a bit easier.

Cross draw does have an advantage when seated in a car though.

 

[model 25]

You can't help but telegraph ANY drawing movement. Reach behind for SOB, Strong Side, or Cross draw and you'll need to move some article of clothing in order to grasp your weapon. In any situation where you need that weapon, such movement will draw attention. Ie: you just telegraphed your draw.

I ain't going to argue because there is no use in it. I would like you to point out anyone who uses cross draw in law enforcement or anyone who wins in any of the IPSC or other contest useing a cross draw. Modern pistol fighting has nothing to do with the old west other than the courage it takes.

Face to face reaching across 18 inches your body leaves you open for a press trap of your gun arm while the enemy makes a lateral movement to the side away from the gun.

Face to face with the strong side your hand moves 6 inches to the gun and useing a speed rock there is no time for your enemy to move. To say you can move 18 inches as fast as you move six leaves me sckeptical at the least. No offense intended.

Butt forward makes easy access by your enemy? How many times have you been mano-a-mano and face to face with someone who is going to kill you yet they had no weapon already presented?

I never seen the men who tried to kill me but it was I that was not armed You better rethink a bit though, if you have a holster that retains the gun from being snatched when they walk up to you the you will slow your own draw.

On the strong hip they have to move you or themselves to get around to the gun. Again no offense intended but the fastest people use a strong side draw. Stand in the mirror and see which telegraphs more, 18 inches or six inches and get a timer and see which you do better with

25

 

[Digital Chainsaw]

Bo Type a Big Factor

Got to agree with Easy E, only my body is at the other end of the spectrum. I have a huge ribcage and pretty beefy pecs and arms. While reading this thread I sat here and tried to reach across my body to where a hypothetical cross-draw weapon would be. I found that not only would I have to extend my right (strong) arm as far as it would go across my torso, I would also have to pull my left shoulder anteriorly nearly as far as it would go to get a full grip on the gun I would have been carrying in a cross-draw holster (kinda hurt, too!).

Needless to say, cross-draw is ruled out for me.

 

[Rob P.]

I ain't going to argue because there is no use in it. I would like you to point out anyone who uses cross draw in law enforcement or anyone who wins in any of the IPSC or other contest useing a cross draw

I believe that cross draw isn't allowed in competitions ranging from cowboy action shooting to IPSC because of the possibilty of painting the crowd.

Also, speed based competition isn't the same as concealed carry or self defense. And I don't know of any law enforcement which authorizes a cross draw while in uniform. Plain clothes yes, but not in uniform.

 

[smince]

I've been carrying since 1982. I started out with cross-draw, but have went to strong side 4 o'clock carry. The minus of crossdraw for me are the following:

My stomach. It is hard, as Digital Chainsaw says, for me to reach over my stomach and draw my weapon in a c-d position. I had already went away from cd carry before I got fat, though. Carry in the 4-5 o'clock position, I can reach behind my back and access my weapon with my off hand if necessary, so the ambi feature works with this carry also.

When the gun is in position for a cross-draw, it is farther forward than it has to be for strong-side draw, at least for me. A sudden breeze/wind can blow your jacket open and more likely to expose your gun than carry on the strong side at the midline or farther back. I accidently "flashed" my weapon more in cd carry than strong side.

However, I disagree with the "cover your own body" at some point in the draw. I have never pointed my weapon at my own body during a cd presentation, either from hip or shoulder rig, although I can see how it could be done.

 

[Skyguy]

>>I won't telegraph my draw by reaching across my body.

Strong side draw actually telegraphs 'more' than cross-draw. No kidding, try it.

>>I won't have the butt forward for easy access by my enemy.

Look again at how I show cross-draw weapon protection/retention.
My weak hand covers – while my strong hand is free to strike, stab, gouge, etc.

Strong side weapon retention is actually riskier because your strong hand is up and back leaving you more defenseless....and that method usually requires retention help from the weak hand. That's bad mojo! Try it.

>>Cross draw does not conceal well.

Cross-draw hugs very tight to the body. It conceals much better than strong side. No bulge in the obvious places.

>>Cross draw gives a close enemy more time to stop your draw.

That applies to any carry method.
You've let someone too close. Now, it's fight or flight....do-or-die.

>>Cross draw is slow.

It's no slower than any other concealed carry method. Usually cross-draw doesn't require a sweep of a cover garment.
Cross-draw also allows one to have their hand discreetly on their weapon....in anticipation.

>>The only time I would even think about cross draw is in a vehicle.

If that's "the only time you would even think about cross draw", just pull your weapon from your strong side and put it on the seat.

....and don't forget that a weak hand draw from a strong side carry is beyond difficult. Try 'that' sometime.
.

 

[shield20]

I would rather have my weak hand up and pushing off as I back up while my strong hand goes for the fight stopper - the pistol behind and protected by my hip.

I would rather have my gun in a more convenient place concealed just fine in most any situation - most people really won't notice. A garment that must be closed to cover a piece stored over front of hip can be left open to cover back of hip. Easier to gain access to the strong side one handed with an open jacket/vest.

Drawing strong side is definetly faster - especially when you consider what is important - getting the barrel to point on target, even more so at contact distances. I KNOW I can get a bunch of rounds on a close target as soon as the gun clears the holster - can't do that cross draw.

DON'T put your weapon on your seat - easy to get away from you (check the Platt/Matix vs FBI shootout).

 

[Skyguy]

>>I would rather have my weak hand up and pushing off as I back up while my strong hand goes for the fight stopper - the pistol behind and protected by my hip.

That's a tactic. But, it's offensive and not defensive.
If your attacker is that close, you're already in trouble....and more than likely you'll never get to your weapon.
That tactic means little to the old, slow or the weak. Distance/awareness is their friend.

>>Drawing strong side is definetly faster

Don't count on that....especially from concealed carry.

Back of hip carry is certainly no faster than cross-draw and probably slower for Joe average.
Its a 'long' reach and requires a flawless garment sweep.

Besides, what difference does a few hundreds of a second make? It means 'nothing' in a close encounter and only ensures mutual wounds or death!
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[kjdoski]

I like crossdraw, in theory, but have yet to find a holster that conceals worth a darn in crossdraw. The only one that does a decent job, for me, is my FIST IWB x-draw for my J-frame. What do you guys carry in?

Regards,

Kevin

 

[shield20]

Unfortunately - stuff happens. I would rather be prepared for any/the majority of situations that I might find myself in then assume I can pick and choose which one I may be faced with. "Too close" in a CC situation is more apt to be the norm instead of the exception - and you had better have a viable solution - cause that is when you will need it most...that is not cross-draw when he is breathing on you. You are right - you ARE in trouble - you will most likely be in a reactive situation (our laws see to that) - the faster you can go offensive instead of remaining defensive the more likely you are to survive. THAT is THE key! How long do you really want to use one arm/hand to protect your (more exposed) piece and the other to fight him off when you can be getting rounds on target instead?

I definetly count on hip draw being faster - cause it is under most situations - from a draw it is ALOT faster to get rounds on target, especially at real world CC distances. And the natural standing and fighting stance for most people, including most defense arts, is strong leg back - why put your weapon and draw in front of the bad guy? I will grant you from a car seat cross draw is easier.

I don't know exactly what difference a few 100s of seconds may make - but I do know I want them ON MY SIDE - not his. You're very generous - but WHY give him any advantage? It may mean everything! That is why most of us practice being accurate AND being fast.