Crappy Groups With Smith AR

[slammedsi]

Finally got the VX3 4-16 mounted on my Smith Ar15 in 223. Bore siting went well. Shot it on paper today at 50 yards with a 6 shot group that i could cover with a quarter.

I backed out to 100 yards a bagged it down like i did at 50 yards. 6 shot group at 100 yards looked like i shot the 9 inch pie plate with buck shot. I couldnt get anything better then a 4-5 inch group. moved back in to 50 yards and did the same 6 shot group. What do yall think? spent 50 rounds trying to site this thing in.

Also what kind of group can i expect out of this Smith&Wesson M&P AR?

 

[bigghoss]

what kind of ammo are you using? try different weights of bullets. do you know what the rate of twist is for your rifle? what version do you have?

the reality is it's not a super accurate sub-moa precision bolt gun so 4-5 inches at 100 might be all it's good for but I would be expecting more like 2-3.

 

[slammedsi]

Winchester 69gr soft points. The barrel is a 1 in 9 twist.

Gun : Smith& Wesson M&P Magpul AR in 223.

 

[slammedsi]

To the top for help?

 

[Palmetto-Pride]

A quarter is roughly 1" in diameter so @ 50yds it is shooting around 2MOA and it should be able to shoot 2MOA @ 100yds also. I have the M&P15T and I have shot around 1 MOA with it at 100yds with match ammo.

 

[DnPRK]

There are many models of M&P15. Does yours have a free floated barrel? If not, a slight variation in pressure on the handguard between shots can cause the group to open just as you described.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Winchester 69gr soft points. The barrel is a 1 in 9 twist.

69gr soft point? I haven't heard of that one. Did you mean 64gr Power Point or 69gr match? If the latter, the 1:9 twist may not be stabilizing it for you. At least the symptoms you describe closely mirror the results I got running 75gr Black Hills through a Bushmaster 1:9 barrel.

I'd try a nice 55gr or 52gr match round and see how that does for you. If it works, then that suggests an ammo/twist problem. If it doesn't then I wouldn't know where to go from there.

 

[slammedsi]

Yes sorry they are 64gr, I went back out to the farm and tryed again just before dark. Using 55gr fmj's The still shot the same 50 yards they shot great. 100-125 they shot like buck shot. Let me see if i can find the gun i have and show yall. maybe its the way im holding it.

Edit.
It has the Magpul MOE Handguard.

 

[slammedsi]

Bit of info i left out. The scope is not new. I bought it used from a local that had it mounted on a 300rum. This is the first gun ive had it on.. Could it be the scope?

Here is the gun i have -
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...d=10001&productId=91449&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y

 

[ScottRiqui]

I wouldn't think the problem lies with the scope. You're consistently shooting 2 MOA at 50 yards, but much worse at 100 yards (closer to 4-5 MOA from your description). Clearly, *something* is happening to your bullets between 50 yards and 100 yards, ballistically-speaking

Have you tried any significantly-lighter bullets for comparison? Also, how are the winds where you're shooting? I doubt it's the wind unless your groups are both opening up and shifting to one side or the other.

Scott

 

[slammedsi]

Wind was about calm to a slight breeze maybe 5mph. Havent tryed anything less the 55gr fmj.

 

[1911rocks]

Scope

Have you checked for parallax? Can you lock it in a rest? I agree with the earlier poster regarding trying a 55gr or 52gr. Blackhills makes some great ammo. Furthermore, I concur with the poster regarding a freefloat handguard. at 100yd 1" of variation is less that the weight of resting the barrel on a sandbag. An overly tight sling does a number as well.

 

[Kmar40]

Start by double checking all your mounts (may be three if you have a removeable carrying handle, a weave base that mounts to it, and rings).

 

[showmefacts]

How many rounds do you have through the gun since it was new? A friend of mine had me help him sight in his brand new dpms sportical once. I can usually produce 2" groups at 100 yards, with the right rifle, but could only muster 6-9" with his gun. We tried all kinds of ammo at first, no help. At the end of the day, about 300 rounds later, both he and I could produce rested groups around 3 inches.

Maybe the gun just needs to be broken in a bit.

 

[slammedsi]

Yes i can lock it in a rest. But please explain "parallax" In dump person talk

 

[slammedsi]

The gun has over 1250 rounds of Monarc 55gr FMJ

 

[showmefacts]

Don't know then.

 

[geetarman]

Parallax is an optical condition that results from the crosshair of the scope not being in the same plane as the target.

To see if this exists in your scope, carefully align the scope with a target. . .preferably one with a vertical and horizontal line.

Without moving the rifle after you have it set, very slightly shift your eye from side to side.

If you see apparent movement of the scope crosshair in relation to the target. . .you have parallax. . .and it will kill your groups.

Many modern scopes have a side focus knob to reduce parallax. Older fixed power scopes often have an adjustment ring on the objective bell that is used to get the cross hair of the scope in the same plane as the target for the range you are shooting.

Many inexpensive scopes do not have an adjustment and parallax is one of those oddities that become more of a problem the farther the target is.

Most scopes do not consider parallax a problem at 50 yards and closer unless it is a scope designed for rimfire .22.

What kind of scope is on the rifle?

Geetarman

 

[slammedsi]

An older USED VX3 Leopold. When i mean used i mean it in all since of the word. the old owner didnt take much care of his things.

 

[DnPRK]

Leupold will give your scope a free checkup under warranty. All you do is pay the postage. Go to the Leupold website and read the details of the warranty program.