cowboy era revolvers and cartridges?

troy_mclure

New member
first let me state im not really a revolver guy, tho i have a ruger sbh, and single six.

but here lately I've been wanting a cowboy style revolver(were break top revolvers around then), chambered in a cowboy era cartridge.

im rather confused as to why i would want something like this, as i know it will be A) expensive, B) hard to find, C) brass is probably a&b.

i also know next to nothing about gun types or ammunition from the era.

so what kind of guns and cartridges were available during that era(even slightly after).
 

gwnorth

New member
If you can afford it, just buy a Colt Single Action Army in .45. It's still the same gun they started making for the US army in 1873, chambered in the same cartridge.

There are replicas of the Schofield (a common top break model of the period) made by Uberti.

http://www.coltsmfg.com/products-c1-Colt_Revolvers.aspx
http://www.uberti.com/firearms/top_break.php

also

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/

and US Firearms, who make some gorgeous wheel guns
http://www.usfirearms.com/cat/single-action-revolver.asp
 
The TRULY amazing thing is that just about every cartridge that was offered in the heyday of the cowboy is still with us today.

Many of them, like the .38 Smith & Wesson, .32-40, .38-40, .44-40, and .45 Colt, never left. They waxed and waned over the years but they never totally went obsolete because there were so many guns chambered for them still in regular use.

Other rounds, like the .38 Long Colt, .41 Long Colt, .45 Smith & Wesson, .44 Colt, and .44 Russian, did die off for a number of years, but with the advent of Cowboy Action Shooting have seen an amazing comeback over the last 20 years or so.

Even better for today's shooters is that many of the available Colt-style single actions (and even the resurrected Smith & Wesson Schofields) are now chambered for modern rounds like the .38 Special, .44 Special, and .357 and .44 Magnums, so you can go modern old-school if you want.
 

Scorch

New member
but here lately I've been wanting a cowboy style revolver(were break top revolvers around then), chambered in a cowboy era cartridge.
The so-called "cowboy era" or "Wild West" is a very interesting area of firearms history. First off, accept that most of what you learned from movies or think you know about firearms in that era is not true. Secondly, many of the most popular cartridges of that era are no longer available.

First off, the 1866-1885 era, which is what you are typically talking about when referring to the "cowboy era". Remember, we had just finished a major war, which was one of the major catalysts (along with gold, free land, and the advent of transcontinental railroad) for the westward migration seen from 1865 until the 1890s. Many "cattlemen" were opportunists gathering herds that had scattered and gone feral during the war, other "cowboys" were what we would now call migrant workers, day laborers who worked for room and board and little more. Many were fugitives, homeless, or drifters returning from the war, and ranchers were offering a way to feed them and clothe them.

Yes, Smith and Wesson made top break revolvers that were very popular during the later part of that time period, as did H&R, Webley, US Revolver, and a whole boxload of makers who disappeared or were bought up by the big boys. Solid frame revolvers were sold by Remington, Colt, and many imported revolvers were also in the market. Many conversions of cap and ball revolvers were done commercially, as well as by gunsmiths around the country, and several "transition" firearms were sold by many makers (Colt sold a slightly modified 1861 Army revolver as the Model 1871 in .44 rimfire).

Next, early cartridges were fairly low powered by today's standards, many were rimfire black powder rounds, typically loaded with externally lubricated heeled lead bullets, and many did not make the transition to smokeless powder very well, if at all, and disappeared fairly quickly after they did. Also, cap and ball firearms were common. Whole volumes have been written about various makes of rifles and pistols, but there were a few common cartridges that, if not universal, were more common than others. Small calibers were available at that time, but because of the difficulties in cleaning them and the low energy transferred because of light projectiles they were not the first choice on the frontier. So while there were small caliber firearms around, they were not as common as today, think of popular cartridges as beginning with 40 caliber (.400") and going up from there. 41 Remington rimfire (popular in pocket guns and derringers), 41 Colt (both Long and Short), several 44 calibers (Henry, Colt, Webley, and S&W had several, and the 44 Merwin & Hulbert was very popular), and a selection of 45 caliber cartridges (Colt, Schofield, etc) and even some 50 caliber pistols. What we now consider to be "cowboy cartridges" (38-40, 44-40, 45 Colt) were not the only players on the block, just the survivors.

Much like Hollywood movies, CASS shooters are not always a reliable source for historical information. Many firearms popular in CASS were not available until much later than the period they are trying to depict. There are a few sources of reproductions of period firearms, but if you are a stickler for accuracy these still may not be fully satisfactory. Try Cimarron or Taylor' Firearms to start out.
http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/index.tpl
 
"So while there were small caliber firearms around"

A few years ago I saw someone estimate that, based on the surviving records from manufacturers like Colt, Smith & Wesson, H&R, IJ, and others, that FAR more .32 S&W chambered handguns were sold during the heyday of the cowboy than actual full-sized "cowboy" revolvers.

And that many of those .32s were sold in cowboy areas.

Add in guns chambered for .38 S&W, and the .32 and .38 rimfire rounds that were offered concurrently with the centerfires, and the numbers made absolutely dwarfs the number of full-size cowboy style revolvers made.

My Great-grandfather was a "gentleman cowboy" in South Dakota in the 1890s. I say gentleman cowboy because he later went to college and became a teacher and writer. I still have his "cowboy gun," which he bought in the mid 1890s, and was the only handgun he ever owned -- a .32 S&W breaktop Harrington and Richardson.

My Great-grandmother, his wife, homesteaded in the Idaho territory in the same time frame. She and her brothers came west from Pennsylvania by train and wagon to establish a string of family farms.

The only handgun she ever owned, her "cowgirl gun" I guess, was a Meriden Arms .38 S&W.
 

Jim Watson

New member
I once read an article from the Sacramento Bee in the 1880s about the Gold Rush town of Bodie, CA; calling it "Bad Shot Gulch" because there seemed to be a lot of gunfights but not many killings. It said that you seldom saw an Army or Navy revolver in a proper belt holster, more common was a Bulldog revolver in a canvas or leather lined coat pocket. The Bulldog revolver was typically a Webley or knockoff in a short cased, low veocity .44 caliber.

There were also tons of inexpensive topbreaks and downright cheap solid frame "Suicide Specials" in calibers .22, .32, and .38.

Since many CAS clubs run pocket pistol side matches, there is a fairly good market in things like Iver Johnson and Harrington & Richardson in .32 and .38 S&W. Or you can go up-market and find a sound old S&W topbreak. A late model, post 1909 S&W is ok with fresh smokeless ammunition.
 
About a year ago I started collecting black powder cartridge guns, with the bulk being "pocket guns" both because they were more plentifull, ( better selection ) & cheaper to buy... I've since collected almost 3 dozen different guns, most are either black powder 22, 32 & 38... I try to buy center fire, since I reload & shoot most of them... but there were alot of 32 & 38 rim fires out there... I even have one in almost new condition in 30 rim fire, which has been obsolite for a long long time... but none of them are what I'd call "cowboy guns"... gambler guns yes, but not a holstered horse mans gun...

IMO, these ( bigger guns ) typically started in 38... I've seen several in 38 S&W & a few in 38 rim fire, but were most often 38-40 ( actually a 40 caliber ) or the other 40's, 44's, & 45's... the Colts were what the movies made famous, but as others have said often cap & ball revolvers were all the average joe could afford... personally I'd love to have a vintage Colt, but for me, there are just too many other guns to buy...;)
 

Daryl

New member
but none of them are what I'd call "cowboy guns"... gambler guns yes, but not a holstered horse mans gun...

I doubt most of them could afford to be "properly outfitted horsemen" in that era. A lot of holsters were made of rawhide, and a lot of handguns rode in pockets. Most of the true "cowboys" worked for little more than food; and a bunk when they could get back to sleep in it.

From what little I understand, I think Bill Hickok himself carried a couple of navy percussion revolvers in .36 caliber. Not all that well heeled by todays cowboy standards, but he managed to aquire quite a reputation as a pistolero. Come to think of it, seems like he wore 'em in a sash, rather than a holster. Who know though? He probably carried in a lot of different ways in his lifetimie.

Daryl
 

bigghoss

New member
I would like to get a breaktop in .45 colt. after seeing open range a few years ago I had to get a single action. I wanted the ruger vaquero but by the time I could afford one they had switched to the new vaquero which can't handle high pressure loads. I ended up getting the adjustable sighted blackhawk which I'm happy with since it's a woods gun first.
 
A Colt, Smith & Wesson or Remington was often as much as a month's salary, or more, for a cowboy. Imagine spending 1/12th of your annual salary on a handgun.

The small handguns were a lot cheaper and thus, more affordable. Plus, the number of active cowboys actually working at any point in time was far less than the number of farmers and townspeople who really had no need for such a large and powerful handgun.
 

gak

New member
...All of which is a way of saying, get a Uberti (Cimarron or Taylors as mentioned) "Model P"--aka 1873--or Pietta (EMF Great Western II), or US Firearms (USFA) clone of the Colt Single Action Army (SAA) -- in .45 Colt or .44-40, as the SAA's two top chamberings, respectively. The latter cartridge was preferred by many cowboys as it allowed rifle/carbine and revolver in the same chamberings (ditto .38-40 aka .38 WCF, and .32-20 aka .32 WCF). Nowadays, as you've likely discovered, there are many rifles that chamber .45 Colt as well.

Back to the Colt SAA-based revolvers, to complete the "old west" picture, get one with a "blackpowder" (BP) frame which is characterized primarily by a cylinder release (for cleaning or repair) done via a frame-end angled screw versus the later (1890s +) "smokeless" era's spring actuated side-mounted release pin. Colt and all major clone manufacturers make this configuration available.

As the OP and others mentioned, if you want to be a little different, there's the Italian Schofield replica, which is pricier than most Italian Colt SAA clones, as well as Italian clones of the Remington 1875 and 1890 single actions. The Remingtons are very similar to the Colts in overall configuration and function as well as most popular "old west" chamberings. Of these two otherwise nearly identical Remington models, the 1875 is characterized by a "web" supporting the barrel/ejector rod housing attached back to the cylinder frame--giving the gun a particularly distinctive and "classic/old" appearance.
 
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SIGSHR

New member
One other consideration might be to get a revolver chambered in a cartridge that was also used in a long gun. Back then, I think it was 32-20, 38-40, 44-40 that met that requirement. Nowadays 38 Special/357, 44Special/Magnum, 45 Long Colt.
"Were there small caliber firearms around?" The first sucessful cartridge revolver was the S&W in 22 Rimfire. There were various other rimfire rounds that are long out of production. This was long before the Thompson-Lagard tests, Julian Hatcher and Jeff Cooper, people didn't spend a lot of time arguing large vs small bore, over muzzle velocity, etc.
I have one of the repro Remington M1875s in 45 Long Colt, I recommend it.
 
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Jim March

New member
A lot of the smaller calibers from before 1900 have either gone extinct (esp. rimfires other than .22) or are on their last legs (32S&W, 38S&W). Others went extinct for a long time (such as 44Russian and probably the 38-40 come to think), totally unavailable in new retail ammo for a generation or more until cowboy action shooting brought 'em back.

The ones that held up were the 45LC (likely because as a military caliber there was a lot of surplus available for a long time) and the various "rifle or handgun combo" stuff like 32-20, 38-40(sorta) and 44-40. The 45LC was never originally a levergun-compatible load due to the rim being both small and weak...the version sold today has a "solid head" rim same as anything else and is now being chambered in leverguns but that's not at all "period correct".

(The original 45LC brass was known as "balloon head" brass - picture a 22LR rim except flatter because it doesn't need to hold primer material.)
 

James K

Member In Memoriam
You know all those cheap breaktop and solid frame revolvers collectors scorn, like Iver Johnsons, H&R's, H&A's and a zillion tons of old guns with no name? Well they were almost all "cowboy era" guns and a lot of them really were carried in the "Old West".

So if you want a "cowboy era" gun without shelling out big bucks for a Colt SAA or S&W No. 3, you can pick up a $60 H&R breaktop .32, and it will be just as authentic and representative of the era as the Colt or S&W.

Jim
 

rclark

New member
Also the .45 Colt is sometimes called the .45 Long Colt (or .45LC) which is technically incorrect. It was just an alias used way back when, when there was some confusion between the .45 Colt and the shorter .45 Schofield cartridge. No such confusion exists today though. You'll see it both ways as some still insist on calling the .45 Colt by it's alias :) .
 

Chesster

New member
Here is one of my favorites. I use light .44 Special and .44 Russian fodder in it. I like the transition period guns between cap and ball and the 1973 Peacemaker.

TOT44.jpg
 

kraigwy

New member
I think if I would like a revolver in 25-20. I dint know if they were ever made and I know they arnt the most powerful round around, but it would be fun to shoot. I think it with the a 25-20 rifle (Rem Model 25 pump would be my pick) it would be the ultimate SASS combo.

But if you want a break top revolver, look at this model 3 in 44 Russian. It was given to my grandfather by his father, when at the age of 12 he left home to work on the ranches in the late 1800s.
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