Cowboy Action Starter (Vaquero?)

Recently I've been considering the fun of cowboy action shooting. I understand that there are some competitions in my area and I'm always looking for an excuse to buy a new gun and start a new hobby. I would like to find a gun to practice with that is not too expensive. Also, I love revolvers, but don't have much experience with single-actions. Being 26 years old, this is kind of unusual for my generation, all the more reason to get into it. Would the Ruger Vaquero be a good choice for these types of competitions? Is the curved hammer of the Bisley a pro or con in these competitions? I like the looks of the Bisley and both this and standard models are in my price range. Would the classic 45LC be the caliber or choice or would the .357 be better (I already own a .357 gp)?

Jonathan
 
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Colt46

New member
.357 ain't exactly traditional

But sure is a lot cheaper to feed if you shoot alot. Also, it would recoil less in competition(if you use .38's or reduced .357) than the larger bores.
The New rugers are similar to the old SAA's in size and handling and have a superior design that won't require the spare parts kit that the Colt would require to use in that kind of shooting.
 

rickyjames

New member
38's and even 32's are popular with those serious about winning competitions. the lighter the recoil the faster the shots, it is a speed game after all. 45's, 44-40's are very popular with people who enjoy more realism. some actually download these calibers to be more competitive. i grew up watching cowboy movies and tv shows so i had to have a 45. keep in mind you will need 2 revolvers, a rifle and a shotgun to compete. most use a 12 ga double barrel coach gun an rifle and pistols of the same caliber. if you can go to a few matches, talk to people, watch what they use. the people are friendly and most will be happy to answer your questions.
 

Jbar4Ranch

New member
The Vaquero and New Vaquero are probably the most popular guns in the sport. The Bisley frame is a matter of personal preference, and the .38 Special is very economical to shoot, especially if you reload. If you want to be absolutely "period correct", shorten your .38 Special cases by .130" and call 'em .38 Long Colts. I believe the only categories .38/.357 wouldn't be legal would be Classic Cowboy (.40 cal or larger) and Frontiersman (cap & ball revolvers). Strangely enough, C&B revolvers of .40 cal or larger with fixed sights are the only guns that would be legal in every category... I think...

Go to the SASS Wire forum at http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php? , register, and ask some questions. Several of us here are also active members there - I go by "J Bar Binks". Click on the "SASS Handbooks" link at the top of the page, then "Shooter's Handbook" to read up on all the categories and rules.
 

gak

New member
Ruger New Vaquero, .357 and shoot mostly .38s as some have said already. 4-5/8" length to keep the weight down (smaller holes than the .45s), stainless or blue'd, your choice. Wait long enough and Ruger'll come out (we hope) with the best of all worlds--for this frame--.44 Special in the NV. Though it won't be appreciably (if at all) cheaper to shoot than the .45, it will have more margin (more metal between chambers) for "warming" up the rounds a bit if you so choose. But that's not available (yet!). Getting started though: New Vaquero .357/.38 and never look back. Later, if moving up to big bores, it'll remain a great do-all packin' gun.
Btw, it'll get confusing quickly out there with mention of this New Vaquero with the discontinued, large frame and thus heftier "old" Vaquero. Be not distracted. The latter is more gun than you need unless heavy hunting need (with 45 or the option of 44 mag). It's simple. If it doesn't say "New Vaquero" on the side of the frame and just "Vaquero," you'll have the distinction right there. If someone says they have a "new Vaquero" for sale, just ask, "what does it say on the side of the frame?" ...end (or start?) Of discussion. *Most* folks now know to capitalize "New" for the newer, smaller framed version, but don't just rely on that.
 
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Jbar4Ranch

New member
If Ruger comes out with a .44 spl New Vaquero... OMG, is it going to cost me...
$1500+ for three new revolvers (gotta have a back up, ya know), and then I'll have to find a couple of .44 spl 1866's (gotta have a back up, ya know)... so around $3500, all told. ;)
 

Jim March

New member
The Ruger Bisley grip frame is famed for it's ability to handle major recoil well. Since SASS/CAS shooting doesn't involve big power, that advantage is basically meaningless. Some people with VERY big hands like them for SASS/CAS shooting...other than that, not very popular.

I lurk on the SASS Wire forum looking mainly at their technical discussions. They tend to disparage the Italian stuff in comparison to Ruger, including some of the best Italian stuff out there such as the Berettas.

Now. If you're buying two, I have to strongly recommend a sweet factory setup, the "SASS special" NewVaqs:

http://www.longhunt.com/ruger/ruger-sass-vaquero.htm

They've tweaked the sights a bit to maximize 'em for the rulebook, and they've installed the Montado hammers, which are the same as a SuperBlackhawk hammer except a different thumb-pad checkering pattern. My 2005-era NewVaq357 was quickly swapped to the SBH hammer - and here's why:

4257948975_05e3bd6432.jpg


In both these shots the hammer hasn't yet started moving. Note how I'm able to throw my thumb completely over the top despite using my usual "pinkie under" hold. (You can also see that my gun is NOT legal in SASS, it's my street CCW piece. See also: http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,30439.0.html)

I've compared the "thumb reach" extensively between my gun, real late-19th century Colt SAAs, post-WW2 Colt SAAs and the USFA Rodeo (another good gun if you don't want Ruger's transfer-bar safety). The pre-war Colts have hammer reaches identical to my gun now. The post-war Colts had longer reach hammers similar to the stock hammer on my NewVaq that I replaced long ago in disgust. The USFA surprised me - it matched the pre-war Colts.

Since most people shooting SASS are using the "long hammers" borrowed from the post-war Colts, it's led to a shift in shooting practice. Shooting two-handed, they usually do off-hand cocking. I don't think off-hand-cocking is a good idea - it's not period correct and if you're stuck on it too deep, it hoses you for one-handed shooting. And since it puts the off-hand thumb across the back of the gun (on top of the strong hand thumb web) it can't cope with big power, only the "mouse phart" loads found in SASS.

Anyways. Point is, the SASS special NewVaqs or the short-barrel version (Montado) or a hammer-swapped NewVaq like mine won't look exactly like a pre-war Colt but it does handle like one, close enough anyhow :).

Oh yeah. About "Longhunter" as linked above: he's a combination gunsmith and gun dealer. He sells at a small premium, but he's a hell of a good deal considering the extras you get. Getting the same or similar gunsmithing done later would mean adding shipping costs and wait back and forth. He has a very good reputation. Browse around his site - look at what he does to USFAs that start out with the traditional flat springs. He also weeds out any "factory birth defect cases", sending them back to Ruger or whoever before anybody else sees 'em - which can be useful with Rugers once in a while. Esp. in this last year of land-rush gun sales and rushed production.
 

gak

New member
What Jim March said :) Jim, are the SASS NVs using the large frame Vaquero's shorter/lower profile hammer--looks like it. You may have already mentioned--if so, I apologize.

EDIT: scratch that last question; I re-read Jim's post and Longhunter's site--Montado-style hammer. But the large frame "old" Vaquero's is another compromise conversion on the New Vaquero some have found to their liking. Less of a reach than the stock NV's anyway, and still "cowboy looking."
 
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Jim March

New member
The SASS NVs are of course mid-frame like all other NewVaqs. The hammer is similar to what was originally shipped on the SuperBlackhawk, and from side profile looks the same (meaning the same "hammer reach"). This new hammer first showed up on the Montado and is now on the SASS specials. We call it the "Montado hammer".

The thumb-pad checkering on the Montado hammer is a bit more "western looking" than the SBH hammer. I prefer the SBH pattern as it's easier to slip the strong-hand thumb off the side at the end of the cocking stroke. A lot of SASS/CAS cocking happens with the off-hand thumb so for some that's a non-issue.
 

phrogpilot

New member
I've been involved in SASS for a number of years and started originally with the original Vaqueros in .45 Colt and traded those for the NVs, also in .45 Colt. The NV feels like a Colt SAA, but has modern features including the transfer bar which allows the weapon to safley load and carry six rounds (SASS still mandates 5 with the hammer on an empty chamber). I chose .45 Colt because of it's historical role in the west; I have a Uberti 1866 winchester clone also in .45 Colt which I absolutely love. As others have said, make sure you're rifle and pistols all shoot the same ammo, it will vastly simplify things for you. One last thing; I couldn't imagine being involved in SASS events without reloading; it would be unaffordable for many people. .45 Colt and .38 Spl are very easy to reload; you can start inexpensively enough with a Lee single stage press and Lee dies. It will pay for itself within the first season, assuming you shoot in a dozen or so events (careful, CAS is addictive). Not to mention, aside from the economics, is the satisfaction and pleasure you get from reloading your own ammo and competing with it. Good luck.
 
Wow, thanks for all of the information. Its a lot to take in. I can see I will have to do some research. Luckly, the weather here prevents much time outdoors for the next few months so I will have plenty of time to research some more (gather the funds) to get started. When I get over to the SASS forum, I will register under that same tagname. Going to go to a gunshow this weekend and check out some revolvers and maybe a coach gun. Thanks again.
-Jonathan
 

ezgoing

New member
If might look at what Cabela's has to offer - decent SA revolvers that are just 'bout perfect for a hand just getting into SSA.

Good quailty, very "peroid" looking and shoot plenty good nuff for SSA targets.

You'll need a pair -'bout $600 or less

EZ
 
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