Cougar across the street? From 9 to .45

[Sulaco2]

Where I live in Washington State we have had near on three weeks of below freezing weather, where most of the time at this time of year it's in the mid to low 40's and rain, for weeks now its been freeze (16 degrees or so) and snow. I was clearing my car this afternoon when my neighbor, just leaving for a meeting said, "Hey better watch Tika, (our 9 year old black lab mix), we saw a cougar across the street yesterday". The lot he was talking about is cleared but tree'ed and brush covered and abuts many acres of light forest like growth with houses mixed in. Now we live in a suburb of South East Pierce County Washington, about 15 miles west from the Cascade mountain foothills so seeing wild life is nothing new. However Cougars in the back yard is new to me. I have resolved to bite the bullet and leave my easy carrying
9mm Kahr PM9 in the safe and pull out a 1911 .45 or should the .40 Browning be more effective on large cats? Anyone have experience with this situation recently? I realize that the odds of a big cat attack are slim but I don’t want to loose my best friend or a neighbor child either. Moving up caliber would seem wise to me at this point as I can’t believe the cat is not hungry with the current artic weather situation that seems to be holding on till the next year at its current rate of change. I am also debating hard ball vs. my standard issue .45 Fed HRT for carry, and mostly think the hardball would still constitute a over penetration hazard in the neighborhood. Comments?

 

[carracer]

I would think the .45 with hollow points as a min. and I would think my .357 w/ jhp would be even better.

 

[Sulaco2]

Ya good point Carracer, maybe 10mm or .357 but control is uppermost as I don't think there is much chance of getting more than one shot at fast moving 200 pound kitty. And even with a CWP and badge I can't do what I would like and thats carry the .06 semi rifle around the neighborhood.

 

[B.N.Real]

National Park rangers used to use 22 long rifle rifles on these cats when they were treed.

I would guess they don't do that anymore.

You put the muzzle of that Kahr within five feet of that cougar and pop three or four rounds through his upper shoulder region or head and he'll back off.

If he's not attacking anyone,I don't think you can shoot at him anyway.

You have to call animal authorities and let them deal with the cat.

Stinks when you have a trusted friend out there in the yard and you don't want him killed.

As for ammo,definitely jhp,you want your shot to at least slow down when you shoot through him,as you likely will.

Be every careful of what is behind where you are shooting.

That's one reason why shooting at a down angle to such an animal within population where the bullet can at least hit the ground,hopefully dirt,makes sense.

Anyone think that bear pepper spray or foam would make sense here?

Plus the gun?

 

[azredhawk44]

Autos are autos, outside of the 10mm or other magnum-like cartridges.

9/40/45 all penetrate to the same depth with the same bullet construction. And they are all designed for light game.... man.

The cougar is light game though.

As long as you don't have illusions that your 9/40/45 will stop a particularly large mountain lion outside of reasonable size, it should do fine.

I personally carry a magnum revolver with heavy penetrating loads when concerned about wildlife attack though... either .357 or .44.

If you are particularly concerned, I'd say carry either FMJ or softpoints if available. If you handload or have a friend who does, see if you can get some lead hardcast RNFP or similar profile bullet with a wide meplat. Leave the JHP's out of the gun for a bit until your cougar concerns pass.

Carry what you shoot best and optimize the ammo for a slightly tougher target than a 2-legged one.

 

[mavracer]

I agree with azredhawk44,the 9mm,40 or 45 should work I might taylor my ammo choice.
of course I'd probably strap on a magnum revolver or my 1076.

 

[Socrates]

Actually, I'd look into 260 grain bullets in 45 ACP/Super. Either that, or flat point 230 grain bullets. If I got a frontal shot on a cat, I'd like more then 14" penetration, half of which occurs at relatively low velocity. Also, the chest muscles on cats are real strong, and, sometimes hard to get through. Side shots, not much worry having enough penetration. I like cats, so, I'm going to suggest keeping the dog inside, and, remember, you are not likely to get ANY shot, unless you have eyes in the back of your head...
Cats KNOW how to stalk, way better then we do...

 

[WESHOOT2]

It's a cat

Any modern-design 45 ACP 230g HP, like your HRT-XYZ, will suffice.
If you do.



If you want to 'lightning-bolt' it hit it with a very-high-speed (impact velocity range 1500--1600fps) 140g XTP-HP fired from a 357 Magnum-chambered revolver.

 

[wnycollector]

Before I picked up my 1st .357, I carried my SIG P220 .45 as my hiking/camping/canoeing sidearm. I loaded it with these http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_34&products_id=156

230gr +P FMJ flat points...they should load fine and make some kitties day really really bad!

 

[Creature]

When I saw "cougar across the street", I was half expecting to read about an old widow who is on the prowl for an eligible bachelor or widower!

 

[Slopemeno]

FWIW, back when I was gunsmithing a customer of mine was into hunting mountain lions here in NorCal. He would hike areas that they were known to frequent (near "The Geysers" area), and used a .22 magnum revolver- note that he didn't tree them, he would just draw and fire, and aimed for the neck.

If I were in your shoes the dog goes inside, and if you see one you call Fish and Game.

 

[Ozzieman]

I disagree with a hand gun being the best tool. If you’re around your house then I would keep a 12 gage pump shotgun with 00 buck. If you don’t have any experience hitting a fast moving target and the kill zone is so small for a cat then a shotgun is the way to go.
I had a friend that had a similar problem with pack dogs along one of the major rivers near where I live.
He was loosing several sheep a month.
From 50 feet he took out the entire pack of 5 dogs with 4 rounds from an 870.
I would still keep a hand gun on hand but my main defence would be those 9 balls that come out with each pull of the trigger.

 

[AUG]

Right or wrong my first though would be....

my neighbor in the suburbs of seattle thinks he saw a cougar....I bet he wouldn't know a cougar from a Husky.

With all the snow you are getting go look for tracks before you get too concerned for fido.

 

[AUG]

If the threat is real then I agree a shotgun is far superior to a handgun.

Too many houses for a rifle

Too hard to hit a moving target-under strees- with a handgun

Shotgun works.

You need to call Fish and Game and get a kill permit. If you shoot a big cat without one your azz will grass.

 

[Smaug]

Not many good choices

Call animal control, have them set a trap and take it away.

If the cougar is hunting for a meal, you are probably not going to see him in time to shoot him.

If he isn't hunting, he'll probably be too far away to hit with any handgun you could reasonably carry. If you could hit him, police would likely not call it self defense.

I wouldn't worry about it.

One thing to consider is that 45 is harder to hit things at distance because of its lower velocity and thus changing trajectory. Easiest would be a longer, barreled 22 Magnum, 9mm, or 40. This is all academic though. You will not get a shot without getting yourself in trouble.

Maybe subsonics 22LR at nighttime out of a closed bolt rifle may not be a bad idea. Since it is a real danger to your dog, you don't have to justify a clean kill. In fact, it would probably be BETTER if the cat were to run off and die somewhere else. If the police found a bullet in the cougar, they could trace it back to you.

 

[P97]

I agree on keeping your dog where it can't get it. I lost a dog this fall to a Mountain Lion. I keep a Shotgun for protection, but chances are that you won't see it when you expect to. Your CCW will be sufficient to take one down if you have to. Anything that will stop a man will stop a Mountain Lion. Every time they have been spotted in my area has been when unexpected. If the Game Rangers will, they can trap it and relocate it. In a thickly populated area, trapping is the safest method.

 

[WESHOOT2]

a study of ballistics tables

It might (it will) show even 230g 'ball' shoots fairly flat out to 50 yrds.
Really.

 

[foggy]

Just don't assume that a pistol will put that cat down in a hurry. The only two cougars I have seen killed ran a little ways and that was after being hit with centerfire rifles.
Stay warm! I am also in Pierce County.

 

[gb_in_ga]

Any of your 3 should get the job done if you do your part. Personally, I'd stay away from hardball just because you are still in a populated area hence shoot-throughs are still an issue. A cougar is about as hard to stop as a human, as I understand. Were I to pick my handgun (since you do seem to be limited to such), I'd personally go with a .357 loaded with a heavier than usual JHP -- decent 158 gr JHPs should do fine. If it were in the woods I'd switch to 180 gr solids, not so much for cougars as for larger, tougher threats like Mr. Bear.

 

[Gunpowder&Lead]

I disagree with a hand gun being the best tool. If you’re around your house then I would keep a 12 gage pump shotgun with 00 buck. If you don’t have any experience hitting a fast moving target and the kill zone is so small for a cat then a shotgun is the way to go.
I had a friend that had a similar problem with pack dogs along one of the major rivers near where I live.
He was loosing several sheep a month.
From 50 feet he took out the entire pack of 5 dogs with 4 rounds from an 870.
I would still keep a hand gun on hand but my main defence would be those 9 balls that come out with each pull of the trigger.

I agree. Shottie with OO buck is the way to go. I would still keep a handgun around, but a Scattergun is absolutely better as a self-defense weapon up to 50yds. Handguns are more portable, but if you have ever shot one when you are scared for your life You would agree that accuracy suffers a great deal. The trick is to lay down a wall of fast moving lead between you and the attackers and a Shotgun does it better than anything.