Cops worst Nightmare

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Jeff Dodson

New member
Should have shot him. I know the guy did not have a firearm, but that would have been justified, he kept going after him and he was getting tired. I'm glad you posted it, it makes cops remember what can happen, so dont get so laxidazical in performing your duties. BTW. I'm a Cop
 
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rem33

Moderator
Jeff,
He did shoot him, go watch again.

I saw this the other day on the tube and wondered what caliber the cop used.
It wasn't enough apparently.
Also to me and this is just my opinion. Why do cops carry semi autos?
I have been considering starting a thread on this very subject.
I understand the fire power of the auto but the dang things JAM.
I have read here guy's ( cops I think) they have fired theirs thousands of times without a single failure. Yes there are well made autos, but in a fight or whatever stuff happens. If the gun is against clothing or whatever it will not function like it should then what? If the cop had a good double action 357revolver in the video we just watched the bad guy would NOT ( maybe) have been able to continue to beat the poor cop.

This is the third piece of video I have seen in the last couple of months where the cops auto jammed. Two including this one the cop is lucky to be alive it looked like to me.

If my life was going to depend on my Pistol I want one that is gonna work under the worst conditions never to jam.

Any cops out there that can answer that for me? If I was one of you guys I would want a bad a$$ revolver.
 
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garryc

New member
I've seen many guys take a shot of pepper and ask for more. Since he got shot with both pepper and a gun, and it had no psycological effect, I'd say the guy was psychotic or on PCP.
I'd feel well armed with a 357 revolver. I really would rather have a 41 mag
 
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The Canuck

New member
We have to consider a whole slew of things.

First off, the continuum of force. When the guy came up off the hood, the cop was justified to use pepper spray to control the threat. Whent hat failed to work and he was getting the snot beat out of him THEN he was justified in using the firearm.

Next up, I find it interesting that the cop would just shoot him once and expect him to stop.
The axiom I was taught in the Army was, "You stop (shooting) when he stops (being a threat)". So he should have continued firing until the big guy was laid low.

Next up, all it takes to jam any pistol is to place it out of battery or in the case of revolvers, jam the cylinder. Considering what was going on, it would not surprise me if the pistol jammed when it went out of battery because the big guy grabbed the pistol and pushed the slide back a bit in his attempt to grab it. If any of us, with whatever choice of type were in that same situation, we would have had to same problem, revolver or autoloader.
 
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Pucker

New member
Wonder what kind of gun he was using that jammed. Anyone?

And why did the officer remove the guy from his vehicle just for speeding? Or was it a little speeding AND attempting to escape? (I think it might have been based on how the officer's vehicle was parked compared to the perp's.)
 
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BillCA

New member
Failure to stop with a handgun is not uncommon. Especially against large, well muscled individuals.

A couple of years ago, local officer I knew and his partner came across a big Samoan fellow (6'3, 296#) taking a shower in a local 75-cent car wash -- at 1:45am. He was buck naked and bending the hose to reduce the pressure. They started talking to him -- a little drunk, locked out of the house by angry wifey, he decided to shower off the day's labors and try talking her into letting him in. When partner said they'd have to cite him for indecent exposure he got mad. Ripped the spray wand & hose off, said where he was going to stuff it on the officer and charged. Two cans of pepper spray worked like a deodorant for all the effect it had. They repeatedly sprayed him to no effect. When the guy finally picked up a 5-ft length of rebar and charged, both officers fired their .40 S&W pistols. First hit was the right pectoral muscle, second hit was low COM about 1 inch above the belly button. The disabling round was a third shot into the left hip socket that crashed him to the ground. After about 30 sweaty seconds of him trying to get up again the pain hit him and he gave up. They had to handcuff him with leg-irons because standard handcuffs were too small for his wrists.

Interestingly, the pectoral shot was a Remington 155gr JHP which expanded to .61 caliber, but impacted a rib and stopped, imbedded in the rib.

Lesson learned: According to the officer I know, the next time a Samoan gets mad, he's grabbing the 12-gauge!
 
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saypek

New member
What a time for the gun to jam! Canuck was right, shoot until the perp's no longer a threat. If i'm a cop, i'd still carry an auto. When faced with multiple threats, high capacity pistols are better choice than six shot revolvers.
 
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Jeff Dodson

New member
:cool: Ok when I first watched the video, I had the sound off.

Now in all the trainings I have been in, including SWAT School, they teach to retain your weapon and NOT let the subject get aho;d of it. In ALOT of the training we did was close quarters. I cant tell the secrets taught to us, I dont want any perps that may be onlooking to know :) I'm not saying that what he did was wrong, he went home with no serious injuries, so he did it right. It dont really matter if the perp lived or dies in this instance, he did not get away and the officer went home safely. In the end, that is the intended result.
 
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Double Naught Spy

New member
If the gun is against clothing or whatever it will not function like it should then what? If the cop had a good double action 357revolver in the video we just watched the bad guy would NOT ( maybe) have been able to continue to beat the poor cop.
Click to expand...

Revolvers have the problem that they can be grabbed and the cylinder held so that it will not turn and as such the gun can't be fired. With an auto, you still get that first shot.

Given how handguns fail to stop folks, speculation that a 357 would have done the job is a bit dubious. Now you are just talking caliber and not platform. There are large caliber semi auto platforms as well.

Semi autos can have stoppages, no doubt, but they also clear fairly easy. From what I have seen, most stoppages are either due to ammo or poor maintenance. The vast majority can be cleared with a tap-rack. When a revovler has a stoppage, it likely isn't readily cleared short of breaking it open.

If you want something more mindless, then revolvers might be the way to got given they are more likely to work if poorly maintained, but as noted, the number of shots are limited, reloads are slower, etc. However, no cop or CCW person should have a poorly maintained gun.
 
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OuTcAsT

New member
I find it odd that the officer did not put the suspect in cuffs before the search began, may differ with jurisdiction but I am pretty sure that officers here do so for safety reasons.
 
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threegun

Moderator
He should have fired a double or triple tap. He probably feared having to explain excessive rounds on an unarmed man to the brass and jury. Bottom line he survived.
 
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Nagano21

New member
The point of posting it was the factor of the gun jamming,and wanted to see what discussion it would bring. I was not sure if anyone knew anymore about the story maybe from their local news, and was wondering what type of firearm he was using and more about the story...Aight.
 
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The Canuck

New member
One thing about the whole calibre/platform/phase of the moon thing...

I have worked with a lot of different people and a few of them were in armed conflict along side me. It always boils down to the operator, not the tool.

In this case the operator was not up to snuff to deal with the perpetrator, not critisizing him, just observing. I'll bet he's high speed now!
 
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Trip20

New member
Something has to be said about the officer's inability to remain on his feet, and safely stay away from the bigger stronger attacker.

A severe lack of physical ability and coordination seemed to be a major factor in direction the altercation took. What that type of job can demand at times (as evident by the video) makes me wonder what physical standards are in place for officers around the nation.

Considering some of the officers I know, have known, and even the ones I've seen day to day... some officers are severely out of shape, and do not - for the most part - appear that they are ready for life-or-death physical confrontation.

Looks can be deceiving, though, and that’s important to remember. I know a short fat man who is a martial arts instructor. He’s a very powerful man, with scary cat-like balance. I’ve seen him spar and his movements have a very quiet, determined demeanor.

I'm in good physical shape. But who knows, taken off guard and scared like that officer... I might not have fancy footwork either.

If I were an officer, I'd take this is a good heads-up reminder that not only is my pistol, mace, cuffs…etc… part of my tool kit, but my body, mind, and physical ability are just as important. Complacency kills.
 
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marlboroman84

New member
The point of posting it was the factor of the gun jamming,and wanted to see what discussion it would bring. I was not sure if anyone knew anymore about the story maybe from their local news, and was wondering what type of firearm he was using and more about the story...Aight.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. :D
 
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