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Conditions?
- Thread starter airpw
- Start date
Those conditions refer to different methods of carrying a single action type semi-auto pistol, like the Model 1911 and its clones.
Condition 1 is magazine loaded, chamber loaded, hammer cocked, and safety on. This is the recommended carry for any immediate use.
Condition 2 is magazine loaded and chamber loaded, but with the hammer down (the safety can't be set with the hammer down). This is a little more dangerous if the gun is dropped, and necessitates cocking the hammer before the gun can be fired.
Condition 3 is with a loaded magazine, but with the chamber empty and the hammer down. This is the mandatory way of carrying in the military, and necessitates "racking" the slide to chamber a round before the gun can be fired.
Sometimes there is mention of Condition 0, which is chamber loaded, hammer cocked, and safety off - in other words, ready to fire.
Some people add a Condition 4, which is with the magazine empty or removed, the chamber empty, and the gun stored or ready for storage.
Others have added other "conditions", such as Condition 18, which is in the hand of your wife who has just compared notes with your girlfriend in the ladies room, and Condition 23, which is at home in the desk drawer when you are carjacked. Neither is recommended.
Jim
Condition 1 is magazine loaded, chamber loaded, hammer cocked, and safety on. This is the recommended carry for any immediate use.
Condition 2 is magazine loaded and chamber loaded, but with the hammer down (the safety can't be set with the hammer down). This is a little more dangerous if the gun is dropped, and necessitates cocking the hammer before the gun can be fired.
Condition 3 is with a loaded magazine, but with the chamber empty and the hammer down. This is the mandatory way of carrying in the military, and necessitates "racking" the slide to chamber a round before the gun can be fired.
Sometimes there is mention of Condition 0, which is chamber loaded, hammer cocked, and safety off - in other words, ready to fire.
Some people add a Condition 4, which is with the magazine empty or removed, the chamber empty, and the gun stored or ready for storage.
Others have added other "conditions", such as Condition 18, which is in the hand of your wife who has just compared notes with your girlfriend in the ladies room, and Condition 23, which is at home in the desk drawer when you are carjacked. Neither is recommended.
Jim
David Scott
New member
Jim, you forgot Condition 666, which is "being melted in the furnaces of the BATF".
Forgive me Jim, but I don't believe that these conditions are exclusive to 1911's and clones. These conditions are used to universally refer to the "firing status" of a pistol.
All pistols can be in condition 3, and all will either go in 1 or 2, and many can be carried in all 3.
Thanks
Onslaught
All pistols can be in condition 3, and all will either go in 1 or 2, and many can be carried in all 3.
Thanks
Onslaught
Hi Air, good question, two things. Yes these conditions apply to more than just SA pistols, although with any DA only semi like a Glock you kinda don't have a cond II, cond I w/ them is loaded w/ one up the spout, While cond. III is loaded w/ an empty chamber. You didn't say what kind of gun you have, if you own any SA semis, such as 1911 type, browning HP, etc., please do not use cond II. With no de-cocking mechanism on these types of weapons you are just a thumb slip away from an accidental discharge. Cond. I, AKA cocked and locked is perfectly safe provided your gun is mechanically sound and you follow all gun safety rules. Cond III is safe, yet slower, requiring you to cycle the slide to bring the gun into play. To add to what Jim said, I wouldn't consider it Cond 0 until my finger was in the trigger guard, which should be the only time its there. Happy shooting and welcome to TFL.
1911, a great year for the free world.
1911, a great year for the free world.
I carry my Makarov in Condition 2.5
These really only apply to 1911-pattern pistols.
For example, I can have my USP (variant 1) in Condition 1 and two, but I can also have it hammer down - safety off. In this mode, it will *not* fire if dropped (as Jim Keenan alluded to), and I don't have to cock it manually before I fire. Or I can engage the safety with the hammer decocked. This mode is not represented in the existing "condition list".
My Makarov, on the other hand, has no condition one.. the normal safe mode is "2.5", like the USP decocked with the safety on.
-z
These really only apply to 1911-pattern pistols.
For example, I can have my USP (variant 1) in Condition 1 and two, but I can also have it hammer down - safety off. In this mode, it will *not* fire if dropped (as Jim Keenan alluded to), and I don't have to cock it manually before I fire. Or I can engage the safety with the hammer decocked. This mode is not represented in the existing "condition list".
My Makarov, on the other hand, has no condition one.. the normal safe mode is "2.5", like the USP decocked with the safety on.
-z
Seminole1986
New member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't these conditions of carry developed by the USArmy specifically for the 1911 platform? I thought they were developed in order to fascilitate understanding among the troops as to the exact manner that they would be permitted to carry under differing circumstances.
The conditions are very specific to this platform. Though they lend themselves to other platforms, this is by analogy only. Sigs, for example are incapable of condition 1 but, unlike most 1911s, are extremely safe in condition 2. But even condition 2 doesn't really apply b/c the Sigs have built in safeties and most 1911s have no safety that can be deployed when the hammer is at rest.
A ppk, on the other hand, can be depolyed in condition 2, and is just as dangerous as a 1911 in this condition. But, it can be rendered safe by deployment of the safety w/the hammer down, a condition that 1911s cannot duplicate.
The conditions are very specific to this platform. Though they lend themselves to other platforms, this is by analogy only. Sigs, for example are incapable of condition 1 but, unlike most 1911s, are extremely safe in condition 2. But even condition 2 doesn't really apply b/c the Sigs have built in safeties and most 1911s have no safety that can be deployed when the hammer is at rest.
A ppk, on the other hand, can be depolyed in condition 2, and is just as dangerous as a 1911 in this condition. But, it can be rendered safe by deployment of the safety w/the hammer down, a condition that 1911s cannot duplicate.
ithaca_deerslayer
New member
Seminole, you write "A ppk, on the other hand, can be depolyed in condition 2, and is just as dangerous as a 1911 in this condition. But, it can be rendered safe by deployment of the safety w/the hammer down, a condition that 1911s cannot duplicate."
I would think the PPK in condition 2 would be more dangerous (unless the safety was 'on'), becuase it is a double action trigger pull away from discharge. But the 1911 trigger pull would do nothing unless the hammer was cocked.
What'cha think?
I would think the PPK in condition 2 would be more dangerous (unless the safety was 'on'), becuase it is a double action trigger pull away from discharge. But the 1911 trigger pull would do nothing unless the hammer was cocked.
What'cha think?
As I said before, NO disrespect to Mr. Keenan... and I didn't mean to get off the subject.
It is most likely QUITE true that the conditions were developed specifically for the 1911, but they are used frequently to refer to Glocks, USP's, etc... in other words, non-1911 type pistols. Maybe it's incorrect to do so, it's just a common practice these days. And yes, there are plenty of pistols now that don't fit snugly into the 123 framework, but using a slightly more broad interpretation of them, they can still apply.
Again, sorry for getting you guys off the subject.
It is most likely QUITE true that the conditions were developed specifically for the 1911, but they are used frequently to refer to Glocks, USP's, etc... in other words, non-1911 type pistols. Maybe it's incorrect to do so, it's just a common practice these days. And yes, there are plenty of pistols now that don't fit snugly into the 123 framework, but using a slightly more broad interpretation of them, they can still apply.
Again, sorry for getting you guys off the subject.
Seminole1986
New member
deerslayer:
You're right! Just goes to show how difficult it is to use the 1911 conditions of carry to describe non-1911 guns. Good point.
You're right! Just goes to show how difficult it is to use the 1911 conditions of carry to describe non-1911 guns. Good point.