Concerns re: Bodycote's Boron Carbide

[VictorLouis]

I've read Mr. Lewis' replies on the earlier thread, as well as the one at www.bladeforums.com. I was intrigued about this finish for an N-frame. I asked a few basic questions regarding pricing, and what top of substrate texture they could do. My orginal e-mail was lost in a server crash, and his assistant promptly replied when I sent it a second time. Here is her reply:

We cannot disassemble or reassemble, test fire, etc. here. In the past we
have used a local gunsmith called Baity's Gunworks in North Wilkesboro, NC.
If you want to call them direct and discuss the costs for disassembly,
removing the bluing to white metal, reassembly and test firing, etc., please
call:

James Funk
Baity's Custom Gunworks
2623 Boone Trail
North Wilkesboro, NC 28659
Tel: 336-667-8785

We cannot coat springs or aluminum pieces but will coat the remainder for
$150.00, which includes the blasting of components as you wish. Shipping
can range from $10.00 to $30.00 depending on insurance and if it goes
overnight, etc.

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Thanks

Ann Spuller
Marketing Manager/MIS
Bodycote Metallurgical Coatings
100 Somerset Drive
Conover, NC 28613
Tel: 828-327-7442 Ext 3103
Fax: 828-322-4636

I still can't tell what the true cost of the job would be. While $150 + shipping is a fair price for a finish these days, you would expect it to be all-inclusive. Should one have to call a 3rd party to see what the additional costs will be? I don't really mind doing the disassembly myself, but shipping loose parts is a problem waiting to happen. Why should blueing have to be stripped when that is essentially accomplished in the blasting process?

I realize that the company is just now venturing into firearms, and there will be some teething pains expected. I'm posting this to enlighten the members here, and I hope Mr. Lewis will be able to address some of my concerns.

 

[ViLLain]

Your contact should be the gun smith and not the plater. And he should give you a total price to do the plating job.

 

[MH]

I know the boron carbide they apply is an outstanding coating. Ford Motor Company and General Motors have used it to coat gears in transmissions to improve the life of the gears. I am sure you will be very pleased with the coating. Before the Diamond Black business was sold to Bodycote, their representatives visited the plant I work at several times. They use a physical vapor deposition process, done in a vacuum chamber, which is state of the art. They are first class people. Check with the gun shop they recommend, you may not have to pay for stripping the bluing.

 

[VictorLouis]

I have no concerns about the coating at all. I'd really like to be the guinea pig for revolvers. If you come on this board to promote a product, and solicit business, it just seems as though you should have things in order. My point is, you should be handed the baby without having to endure the labor pains.

 

[DarrellGLewis]

Hello Mr. Victor Louis

Let me try an address some of your concerns;

When Bodycote made a decision to venture into the gun industry it was not without much thought regarding disassembly of firearms. We felt it was not in our best interest to be involved in the gunsmith trade because of the liability.I made the decision to provide the Boron Carbide coating service to both Manufactures and Individuals such as you. But firearms must be prepared and ready for coating. We cannot remove gun bluing chemically and maintain the polished surface. That is why you were referred to a local gunsmith.

Bodycote has made a substantial investment into the Boron Carbide coating operation totaling 10 Million Dollars. And we are not a fly-by-night organization that you make us sound like with a couple of tanks of acid and some other chemicals.

We have 240 Plants worldwide and annual sales in excess of a Billion Dollars a year. With our ability to provide services such as Tenifer Boron Carbide Chemically formed Ceramics I thought we may be able to develop the ultimate gun finish and share it with both Manufactures and the private sector.

But if it's asking too much for someone to disassemble their own gun or have someone do it for them, then maybe we should reconsider the private market.

Darrell Lewis
Dlewis@bodycote-na.com

 

[milcaztra]

From my research, ceramic coatings such as boron carbide are undoubtedly state-of-the-art for increasing corrosion resistance, wear resistance, and lubricity. As a law enforcement officer, I am certainly interested in having my primary carry weapons coated -- even stainless steel has a way of rusting in the hot and humid Houston summers. With the incredible Rc rating, low coefficient of friction, and chemical nonreactivity of these coatings, they offer a real leap in firearms finishes.

Mr. Lewis, after reading Mr. Louis' posts several times, I saw a great deal of interest in your coatings -- enough that he contacted your company wishing to pursue a business relationship with you. I didn't see any intended slight to your well-established company. As you know, firearms and knife enthusiasts, including almost everyone who posts on this board ( ), take their favorite handguns as seriously as an auto collector would take a '67 Stingray.

Considering that this forum encourages open discourse and frank discussion, I'm sure that there was no intended slight ...... MH plainly stated that he had first-hand dealings with your company and products, and that Bodycote knows its business. As to the business of coating firearms, I personally believe that it would be a rewarding venture for your company, especially after all of these misunderstandings have been put aside.

Mr. Louis, all I can advise is patience. We're in the holiday season and Bodycote is venturing into a completely new service, which happens to be wrought with liability issues. Policies and procedures are being written as the venture develops. This is how business is done, with ideas, implementation, and constant revisions.

In other words, can't we all just ....... get along?

 

[Incursion]

Darrell, I understand what you're saying, but I think that everyone is trying to get some clarification as to how your business works. I don't think anyone intended to post any negative comments. People don't like to send their guns to random people.

On another note, this coating sounds amazing, and I believe you will get a lot of business from these boards. I have posted about this on parkcitiestactical.com, and I'm sure the other boards will hear about this new coating as well. It would be a shame not to offer this to the private market, but a business has to do what's in its best interest.

 

[M1911]

Darrell:

I certainly understand your reasoning for not wanting to get into the assembly and disassembly of firearms. And I understand that some surface prep work may be required. Personally, if I try your coating, it will be as part of a bunch of work being done on my gun, so I'll send it to a gunsmith and he'll then forward it to you, after he's worked his magic on it. So I have no problems regarding the assembly and disassembly. And I am SERIOUSLY thinking about trying your coating.

I appreciate greatly that you are posting here and giving us information. Realize, however, that many gun owners are rather ornery, so don't expect to please everyone. But don't think that just because you get criticized by some folks, that everyone agrees with them.

M1911

 

[VictorLouis]

Darrel,

We felt it was not in our best interest to be involved in the gunsmith trade because of the liability...We cannot remove gun bluing chemically and maintain the polished surface. That is why you were referred to a local gunsmith.

I can empathize with that concern, and that is perfectly acceptable to me.

..we are not a fly-by-night organization that you make us sound like..

I never inferred that, and I honestly don't think one could get that impression in reading my initial post. Regardless, this is the internet, and I do realize that it is all to easy to miscontrue the written word at times. Heck, I only have a second year college education, so the onus is on me.

I thought we may be able to develop the ultimate gun finish..

Indeed! That is why I've expressed the interest and want to get it done.

But if it's asking too much for someone to disassemble their own gun or have someone do it for them..

No, that's not asking too much at all, really. I just feel that the whole issue boils down to a lack of communication. Perhaps you should've presented this as:

"Hello, folks. Here is the skinny on our new state-of-the-art finish. If you'd like to be the first on YOUR block to pony-up for it, get ahold of XYZ Gunsmithing @ BR-549".

That way, there would be no confusion. Anal retentive gun-owners like myself wouldn't have any doubts crop up like I expressed, and others made explanation for.

Now, should I go ahead and contact that gunsmith so I can be the first on my block? Or, would you like to contact me off-line for some other arrangements?

 

[don't shoot it's me]

I'm so confused...which Louis/Lewis is the coater and which one is the prospective customer....one of you should change your name if this thread continues on....."you say tamato..."

 

[DarrellGLewis]

Let me start off by saying I have enjoyed being part of this Forum
and appreciate the support the members have shown for our
Boron Carbide coating process.

Having said that I just don't have time to get in a pissing contest every time someone's not happy with the answers they receive.
During the past two weeks since this thread started I have received more then 100 Email's regarding our process and welcome your questions and comments.In the future please
contact me at the numbers listed below I'll be more then happy
too discuss each one of your concerns direct.

Darrell Lewis
Office 828 327 7442 Ext 3125
Cell 704 907 4124

YOU MAKE IT FIRST-WE MAKE IT LAST

For anyone wanting to see a picture of a boron carbide coated slide checkout the 1911 forum under gunsmiths

 

[Chop Farwood]

I was seriously interested in Bodycote for two of my handguns. I was planning on having them done in matte chrome until I learned of Bodycote on this forum. After reading Mr Lewis' response above, I no longer have any interest in his products. Wrong attitude for my tastes. Chrome it is.

 

[riverdog]

Chop,
I think I understand your position, it was also mine at first. Why would DGL bother posting such a negative attitude? If I didn't have time "to get in a pissing contest every time someone's not happy with the answers they receive", I certainly wouldn't have had the time to post that. Then I realized that he's probably a Chemical Engineer or similar and is focused on metal coating period. He coats parts for aircraft but United doesn't send him the whole plane. They send him parts. All he wants is parts. For a gun, deal with a gunsmith.

What I would like to see is a listing of gunsmiths who use his treatment. I've seen one gunsmith listed and he's 2000 miles away -- not convenient and nobody I've heard of with a national reputation. Maybe he'll get one from Bodycote, probably not.

BTW, my Springfield 1911A1 is finished with a matte hardchrome, absolutely outstanding finish. You'll like it.

 

[plnkr1234]

I think we should cut Mr. Lewis (from Bodycote) some slack. I can understand his concerns regarding having to dissamble and finish prep a customer's guns, and thus can understand his desire to avoid this issue completely.

He could have adopted a policy whereby he only coated for gunsmiths, but instead offered a way for private customers to get the finish, too, without going through a 'smith.

I hope he continues to decide to do this.

 

[VictorLouis]

I just don't have time to get in a pissing contest every time someone's not happy with the answers they receive.

Hmmm, after someone posted regarding the ultimate gun finish, you registered on this board and interjected seven times here: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8996

Not only did you initiate a thread, you seemed to have time for two-dozen replies here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=171848

The difference between those two threads and this one seems to be that some concerns have been raised. I posted here for the benefit of the other membership. I have been more than civil here, and so have the other repondents. To say that I am taken aback by your reponse is an understatement.

 

[Alaska Roy]

For The Self Important Naysayers Here-

Get a freaking grip! Can you imagine wading through all the bs email fron several dozen gun boards members all whining their self inflated importance?
The business is an industial finish shop geared for mass production and not a smithy, geez.
Like most major industrial finishers, you or your smith can strip the gun down of all it's parts YOU want coated as well as prepare the external parts that show to the finish desired.
You want a combo like matte and polished or a different degree of matte or polish then consult your smith or a finish shop.
If the whiners havn't totally queered the deal then I plan on shipping a HK P-7 with all surfaces prepared locally to my specs., that will be 220AO on the matt surfaces and buffed (not color polished) on the flats. Later

 

[DarrellGLewis]

Alaska Roy

Thank you for your support and understanding during the early stages of this new endeavor for Bodycote. As with any new Market Development theirs going to be growing pains that must be addressed.As I had said in an earlier post I do want to provide Boron Carbide to both Manufactures and Gun owners alike.

We are in the process of setting up a working agreement with a large Gun Smithing School to enable private gun owners a place that will prepare guns for coating.During the past couple of weeks I have been contacted by some of the top Gun Builders in the country and will supply them with coatings for their evaluatons.

This coating will be on display at the upcoming SHOT SHOW in Las Vegas, I will be attending and available for meetings to discuss in detail our coating process.

Roy if and when you're ready to coat that HK P7 with Boron Carbide please contact me via Email or Phone and I'll be happy to
coat it at NO CHARGE.

Darrell Lewis
Dlewis@bodycote-na.com

 

[Alaska Roy]

Many Thanks to You Darrell!

I accept! I'll call you on my dime tomorrow, I've never been comfortable with email business, just too sterile.
For the forum members, industrial finishing is a high cost labor intensive and govt over regulated business. I know as that's what I did for a living for too many years, the specs of the coating can only be described as revolutionary industry wide.
Since the govt has effectively banned the use of the older hard black chrome we as shooters have had to compromise with silver coloured hard chrome which wears well but normally has an undercoat of nickle for cosmetics that is the weak link in the chain. The undercoat fails before the hard chrome, the thicker the coating the weaker it becomes.
Merry Christmas All!

 

[Tamara]

Heh...

If it weren't for the part about the detail stripping, I'd have driven out to Bodycote already.

The gun I want done is my P7M8, which is a bear to detail strip and reassemble. If it had been my 1911, I'd already be singing its praises; but my 1911 is already Bearcoted.

It's now going to have to be one of those "when I get around to getting it down to the shop and shipping it" kind of things.

 

[don't shoot it's me]

Wow...I learned alot on this forum....most importantly, when you backsomeone up, you might get free stuff....cool.....I think I'll e-mail Smith and Wesson and tell them how much I like the new agreement...