I was having a conversation with my brother (police officer) a few weeks ago when he mentioned you CAN NOT legally carry a handgun on you while in your vehicle without a LTC. He added that the handgun can be concealed in the vehicle without a LTC but, not on you. Does anyone know of an actual case where someone was convicted of this?
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Concealed handgun in Texas while driving.
- Thread starter Stuohn
- Start date
zincwarrior
New member
Thats an extrapolated interpretation I've never heard before. Will be interesting to see if someone finds something. It seems counterintuitive.
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Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view, unless the person is licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and the handgun is carried in a shoulder or belt holster; or
I looked at this part and it seems like it would not be illegal.
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view, unless the person is licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and the handgun is carried in a shoulder or belt holster; or
I looked at this part and it seems like it would not be illegal.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
It should be noted that the protection offered by Sec. 46.02(2) only applies if you are not also commiting any crime beyond a class C misdemeanor related to traffic or boating. Carrying under a CHL gives you better legal protection in most cases.
To give one real life example: gal with no record and committing no crime is carrying a pistol concealed in her vehicle. She gets into a minor traffic accident requiring a tow. Police officer discovers empty marijuana container and gun while doing inventory of vehicle. While the drug paraphenalia is normally just a class C misdemeanor, it isn't traffic-related - so she picks up a more serious Unlawful Carry of Weapon charge as well and now she is going to jail.
If the same gal had a CHL, she is looking at a class C misdemeanor and at worst, a possible CHL revocation if they determine a case can be made she is "chemically dependent." So, just a citation, no jail and she may even keep the CHL.
To give one real life example: gal with no record and committing no crime is carrying a pistol concealed in her vehicle. She gets into a minor traffic accident requiring a tow. Police officer discovers empty marijuana container and gun while doing inventory of vehicle. While the drug paraphenalia is normally just a class C misdemeanor, it isn't traffic-related - so she picks up a more serious Unlawful Carry of Weapon charge as well and now she is going to jail.
If the same gal had a CHL, she is looking at a class C misdemeanor and at worst, a possible CHL revocation if they determine a case can be made she is "chemically dependent." So, just a citation, no jail and she may even keep the CHL.
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I agree, the actual scenerio we discussed was if someone had to exit vehicle while still concealing the gun...wreck, just forget..whatever. That I understand would be a crime but, i couldnt understand why having the gun concealed on you while in vehicle would be illegal. I asked if he had arrested people personally for this and his reply was " we do all the time".
As long as all of the following are true:
They are in a vehicle owned by them and under their control <Note correction provided in the post below.>
They are not committing any crime other than a Traffic misdemeanor
The handgun is concealed
Then they are not breaking any law by having the handgun in the car or on their person even if they do not have a handgun license.
They are in a vehicle owned by them and under their control <Note correction provided in the post below.>
They are not committing any crime other than a Traffic misdemeanor
The handgun is concealed
Then they are not breaking any law by having the handgun in the car or on their person even if they do not have a handgun license.
Assuming he's telling the truth, this is a good example of why I typically suggest that people should not ask LEOs for legal advice.I asked if he had arrested people personally for this and his reply was " we do all the time".
carguychris
New member
The law actually reads that the vehicle is must be owned by them OR under their control. This is an important distinction; unlicensed CCW by a passenger is lawful if that person owns the vehicle, and unlicensed CCW by a non-owner is lawful if that person is the driver, but unlicensed CCW by a non-owner passenger is a Big No-No.JohnKSa said:They are in a vehicle owned by them and under their control
...and the law is silent on the manner in which the handgun may be concealed, but considering the owner/driver provision discussed above, it's advisable for the handgun to be kept in a location that's most easily accessible by the vehicle owner or driver.JohnKSa said:The handgun is concealed
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Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
I think JohnKSa and carguychris summed it up well. I'm skeptical that your brother is arresting people all the time for that charge as I can't think of a prosecutor who would take the case (assuming it didn't fall into one of the exceptions). Having said that, carrying unlicensed in a vehicle generally offers you less protection and tiny differences in the facts can get you arrested for what is a class A misdemeanor.
And I am definitely seeing real life cases of peaceable citizens being arrested and charged when they fall into one of those areas that 46.02(2) doesn't cover.
And I am definitely seeing real life cases of peaceable citizens being arrested and charged when they fall into one of those areas that 46.02(2) doesn't cover.
g.willikers
New member
Police in general do not know all that much about the laws they are empowered to enforce.
They are not lawyers.
And it appears that when in doubt to arrest and figure it out later.
If the officer is agreeable, remain calm and to ask them to call a superior to ask about it.
That can solve the question right there and then.
They are not lawyers.
And it appears that when in doubt to arrest and figure it out later.
If the officer is agreeable, remain calm and to ask them to call a superior to ask about it.
That can solve the question right there and then.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Maybe a call to a superior can resolve the issue right then ... or maybe not.g.willikers said:Police in general do not know all that much about the laws they are empowered to enforce.
They are not lawyers.
And it appears that when in doubt to arrest and figure it out later.
If the officer is agreeable, remain calm and to ask them to call a superior to ask about it.
That can solve the question right there and then.
Several years ago I took a citizens' police academy course through the PD in the neighboring town. Two hours, one night per week for twelve weeks, with a different topic pertaining to policing each week. One of the class modules was about firearms and firearms laws. The instructor for that module was a veteran sergeant, who was (maybe still is) a shift supervisor and the guy in charge of pistol permit applications for that department.
In his presentation, he made several statements that were just flat-out wrong. As an NRA handgun instructor (as well as being "that guy"), I finally had to raise my hand and correct him. He hemmed and hawed a lot, then finally conceded that "technically" (his word) I was right, but he claimed that "in the real world" the points I questioned didn't make any difference. The problem is, they didn't make much difference to the cop on the street, but they could make a lot of difference to the citizen being hassled by a cop for a purported firearms violation that isn't actually a violation after all.
If a patrol officer had called in for advice when this guy was the shift supervisor, the cop would be given bad advice. Morever, since this guy was the sergeant who was supposed to know this material, I imagine the other shift supervisors would probably give similarly bad advice if contacted.