I'm looking at one, in near new condition. This is the older model built in the 1960s, Colt's first post-war NM models I believe. Are these quality guns for shooting? This would be an informal target gun, maybe practical shooting one day. I'm also interested in the collectible value of the Colt. So how does this older Colt stack up against newer models from the various "in" makers?
Colt Gold Cup National Match 1911
- Thread starter dalpra
- Start date
My 1962 Colt NM[ it says GOLD CUP nowhere upon the gun]45acp pistol has over 55,000 rounds through it and is still going strong. it's never been in a holster so it even looks new other than no finish around the grip area. Of the 55,000 about 5000 were hardball, the rest were my handloads of many permutations but mostly lead bullets. Other than being on about it's 15th rear sight pin it's just as I got it oh so many years ago.
Almost the entirety of that ammunition was fired out of one 1911 magazine that came with the gun. Amazing!! Whyinell don't guns work like that now...55,000 rounds and not so much as a single stoppage or malfunction of any kind. I'm dead serious, guys, not one!!
Almost the entirety of that ammunition was fired out of one 1911 magazine that came with the gun. Amazing!! Whyinell don't guns work like that now...55,000 rounds and not so much as a single stoppage or malfunction of any kind. I'm dead serious, guys, not one!!
Stephen A. Camp
Staff In Memoriam
Hello. I have a Nat'l Match (No "Gold Cup" anywhere on it). I had the gun black parkerized and an Ed Brown beavertail added as well as a lightweight trigger and got rid of the spring-loaded sear, but had a trigger-job done. It is a shooter and much more accurately than me! If the price is right to you, grab it. They are really nice pistols. Best.
Any 'pre-Gold Cup' National Match commercial Colt will be a 'wow' shooter.
There is one thing owners of this pistol should know...the slide has extra lightning cuts inside, and weighs about an ounce less than the standard commercial slide. Terry's (see above) as well as my own experience, proves that the NM can handle a good deal of regular hardball. But I wouldn't recommend anything in the plus-P range for these fine guns, even with spring changes.
Some of these guns came with the Colt Accro rear sight, and some with the Elliason. The latter sometimes has a habit of breaking or throwing its crosspin. This is curable...a tight roll pin or solid drill rod pin replacement is easy to provide.
In addition to shooting like a houseafire, the commercial NM is a beautiful gun, with the best finish and fitting that Colt was able to provide in that era. Mine is the ONE handgun I'll never let go. Expect to pay around $1000 for one in NRA Excellent; anything less is a huge bargain.
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If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
There is one thing owners of this pistol should know...the slide has extra lightning cuts inside, and weighs about an ounce less than the standard commercial slide. Terry's (see above) as well as my own experience, proves that the NM can handle a good deal of regular hardball. But I wouldn't recommend anything in the plus-P range for these fine guns, even with spring changes.
Some of these guns came with the Colt Accro rear sight, and some with the Elliason. The latter sometimes has a habit of breaking or throwing its crosspin. This is curable...a tight roll pin or solid drill rod pin replacement is easy to provide.
In addition to shooting like a houseafire, the commercial NM is a beautiful gun, with the best finish and fitting that Colt was able to provide in that era. Mine is the ONE handgun I'll never let go. Expect to pay around $1000 for one in NRA Excellent; anything less is a huge bargain.
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If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
"Gold Cup" came with the Series 70. The earlier ones were merely National Match. Besides the lightened slide and lighter recoil spring, they also had a special recoil spring plug and matching bushing; the plug was cone-shaped on the end, and the back of the bushing was relieved to match, apparently giving some self-centering effect. When Colt introduced the "Gold Cup Trophy" a few years ago, they had allegedly based its fit and finish on an old National Match gun that they had bought from a collector - they apparently needed a guide to show them how they used to do it (!), and picked one of the '60's NM pistols.
Rocky Road
Retired Screen Name
Dalpra--You're considering one of the finest handguns ever made. Minor cautions, having to do with the 1950s--60s vintage Colt National Match .45s--
These pistols were tuned especially for light target loads, usually something like a 185 to 200 gr. semi-wadcutter at maybe 750 fps— a typical load used something like 3.5 gr. of Bullseye powder.
One good result of this is that the barrels and ramps were throated nicely and I've never had any problem with any soft nose or hollow point load in my guns (I've had three of them.)
The down side is that things were set up so that the light loads could overcome slide inertia. Examine the underside of the slide, around the firing pin channel. Both sides of the slide are machined to remove metal at this point. You can see the extractor for most of its length. The other side is done similarly.
Also, the recoil spring is noticeably lighter than the standard government or "hardball" spring. The combination of these two factors with full power loads usually leads to some battering of the mechanism. On two of my pistols, I've had to have a gunsmith weld up a crack at the right rear of the slide, from extractor channel to the groove on the right-side bottom of the slide.
I recomend that anyone using on of these fine old guns with ball or ball-equivalent hand loads, take two precautions: Install a full weight government recoil spring. Don't go to a grossly overweight spring--this actually INCREASES felt recoil, changing the impulse and timing of the mechanism. Try a neoprene buffer behind the recoil spring, around the recoil spring guide rod. I've been using the Wilson Shock-Buff for many years, with perfect satisfaction. Thy are effective and cheap. Shun the spring buffer assembly in place of the standard guide rod. (1) They are not easy to tune to the exact degree of buffering you need, and, (2) When one goes to pieces while you're shooting, you have a mess on your hands.
These are WONDERFUL old pistols. Use the above precautions and keep some rear sight pins in your shooting box, with the proper size pin punch. Resist the temptation to use maximum hand loads. Guard the beveled NM bushing and recoil spring plug from anyone who might "trade out" their parts for ‘em. It is hard to find proper replacements.
The earlier NMs had a different rear sight--I think Accro brand. The Elliason came later. The undercut front sight is a little hard on some holsters. Please, don't do what I did and file or grind on it. If you must pack it in a holster, buy one with integral sight rails or neoprene sight channel. All in all, keep the piece in as near factory original configuration as you can. It is excellent just the way it is. If you want something different, there'll always be some nostalgic old dude (like me) who'd trade you for it.
Best regards,
RR
PS--I wrote the above off-line after reading the first few replies earlier in the day. I note that Steve Camp, Slabsides, and RickB have all commented on stuff I mentioned, except Steve mentioned the spring loaded sear gizmo. Dalpra, if you get the fine old piece, and I hope you can, make every effort to either find a proper manual telling how to handle the sear assembly, or get with someone who KNOWS the National Match to show you how to handle it. I make a slave pins from a round tooth pick, sand off the rough ends, and do a certain amount of cursing. A lot of people did what Steve did-- take out the factory sear, sear depressor part and the tiny little spring, and replace them with standard parts. (Save the parts carefully.) Then, of course, you need a trigger job. Your choice.
Terry M--Say hi to Shurf Jim next time you see him. He was present the night I got a bad scratch on the slide of my first NM .45, breaking open a plate glass door during a raid.
All the best - - -
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---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---
These pistols were tuned especially for light target loads, usually something like a 185 to 200 gr. semi-wadcutter at maybe 750 fps— a typical load used something like 3.5 gr. of Bullseye powder.
One good result of this is that the barrels and ramps were throated nicely and I've never had any problem with any soft nose or hollow point load in my guns (I've had three of them.)
The down side is that things were set up so that the light loads could overcome slide inertia. Examine the underside of the slide, around the firing pin channel. Both sides of the slide are machined to remove metal at this point. You can see the extractor for most of its length. The other side is done similarly.
Also, the recoil spring is noticeably lighter than the standard government or "hardball" spring. The combination of these two factors with full power loads usually leads to some battering of the mechanism. On two of my pistols, I've had to have a gunsmith weld up a crack at the right rear of the slide, from extractor channel to the groove on the right-side bottom of the slide.
I recomend that anyone using on of these fine old guns with ball or ball-equivalent hand loads, take two precautions: Install a full weight government recoil spring. Don't go to a grossly overweight spring--this actually INCREASES felt recoil, changing the impulse and timing of the mechanism. Try a neoprene buffer behind the recoil spring, around the recoil spring guide rod. I've been using the Wilson Shock-Buff for many years, with perfect satisfaction. Thy are effective and cheap. Shun the spring buffer assembly in place of the standard guide rod. (1) They are not easy to tune to the exact degree of buffering you need, and, (2) When one goes to pieces while you're shooting, you have a mess on your hands.
These are WONDERFUL old pistols. Use the above precautions and keep some rear sight pins in your shooting box, with the proper size pin punch. Resist the temptation to use maximum hand loads. Guard the beveled NM bushing and recoil spring plug from anyone who might "trade out" their parts for ‘em. It is hard to find proper replacements.
The earlier NMs had a different rear sight--I think Accro brand. The Elliason came later. The undercut front sight is a little hard on some holsters. Please, don't do what I did and file or grind on it. If you must pack it in a holster, buy one with integral sight rails or neoprene sight channel. All in all, keep the piece in as near factory original configuration as you can. It is excellent just the way it is. If you want something different, there'll always be some nostalgic old dude (like me) who'd trade you for it.
Best regards,
RR
PS--I wrote the above off-line after reading the first few replies earlier in the day. I note that Steve Camp, Slabsides, and RickB have all commented on stuff I mentioned, except Steve mentioned the spring loaded sear gizmo. Dalpra, if you get the fine old piece, and I hope you can, make every effort to either find a proper manual telling how to handle the sear assembly, or get with someone who KNOWS the National Match to show you how to handle it. I make a slave pins from a round tooth pick, sand off the rough ends, and do a certain amount of cursing. A lot of people did what Steve did-- take out the factory sear, sear depressor part and the tiny little spring, and replace them with standard parts. (Save the parts carefully.) Then, of course, you need a trigger job. Your choice.
Terry M--Say hi to Shurf Jim next time you see him. He was present the night I got a bad scratch on the slide of my first NM .45, breaking open a plate glass door during a raid.
All the best - - -
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---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---