With ballistics similar to the powerful .357 mag, why did this loading not become very popular? Several manufacturers made handguns in this potent round, including Colt in it's popular 1911 setup, why didn't this chambering do well? It seems that .357 mag is on everyone's list of best home defense calibers, so it would seem that the .38 super would be the semi-auto's version of this round with 10-15 in the mag instead of just 6-8 in a wheelgun. What's up with this?
Colt .38 super popularity
- Thread starter MEDDAC19
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juliet charley
New member
There's too much competition from the 9x19/357 SIG and it's too similar (identical) in performance to the 9x19/357 SIG. It requires a large frame. There's no current generation premium ammuntion chambered for it. It was plagued by inaccuracy for most of its life (not its fault but the result of poorly designed weapons/barrels). Need more?
The Super started in the 1911, but those who got a 1911 primarily got the .45acp. The US market at first just wouldn't tolerate a metric cartridge, but when the semi-auto market exploded it brought the European pistols and the 9mm cartridge to our shores. The Super being a US cartridge was not chambered in most of the Euro pistols. It is a fine cartridge, but not having many US semi-autos chambering it caused it to be pushed aside. The Super offers advantages over the 9mm (remember the 9x21 and 9x23 were created because the 9x19 just couldn't run with the Super), but with the 9mm being the new girl at the dance in the US it stole the show.
Dave Sample
Moderator
The Factory ammo was not very stout and Colt 38 Super barrels were very poorly designed and not accurate at all.
I had a call from one of my gunfighter pals and we both agreed that a .38 Super Commander would be the ideal gun for the "Gangstas" in Phoenix. Hard on Low Riders and very accurate. We both know how to load some screamers for this round that will do the Job. The 38 Supers will be a great round for the pros someday.
I had a call from one of my gunfighter pals and we both agreed that a .38 Super Commander would be the ideal gun for the "Gangstas" in Phoenix. Hard on Low Riders and very accurate. We both know how to load some screamers for this round that will do the Job. The 38 Supers will be a great round for the pros someday.
juliet charley
New member
A couple of reasons: one, it was in the right place at the right time, and two, when the .40 S&W, we hadn't achieved the parity in service calibres that we today (thanks to standards and bullet design/engineering).
Peter M. Eick
New member
Back in its day it was pretty popular, but I think we view it today with a collection of other cartraiges like the 357 mag or the 357 sig.
Now step into the way back machine and think about it. When the 38 super came out you had in the states, the 38 special, the 44 special, 45 colt as the big revolver rounds, you had the 45 acp, 380 auto and 25 auto along with the 38 auto as the big autoloader rounds. I discount the 9mm because my research seems to indicate these were pretty rare in the states back then. Also the 30 lugar, 455 and others were again rare.
So if you wanted a high speed round, the 38 super was it prior to the 38/44 in april of 1930.
When did the 357 mag come out? 1935 in May?
To me the weakness of the 38 super was always the accuracy/headspace issue and that was not "practically" solved till the late 70's or so. Had Colt headspaced the round correctly, lopped off the semi-rim and stayed with the original power levels, I have to wonder if the Super would have supplanted the 45acp in the american shooter psyche. I know as a kid, I always looked at the ballistics tables and wondered why the 45 acp was the "thing" to get when compared to the 38 super, but back then not many folks understood the accuracy issue. I know I certainly did not.
Now step into the way back machine and think about it. When the 38 super came out you had in the states, the 38 special, the 44 special, 45 colt as the big revolver rounds, you had the 45 acp, 380 auto and 25 auto along with the 38 auto as the big autoloader rounds. I discount the 9mm because my research seems to indicate these were pretty rare in the states back then. Also the 30 lugar, 455 and others were again rare.
So if you wanted a high speed round, the 38 super was it prior to the 38/44 in april of 1930.
When did the 357 mag come out? 1935 in May?
To me the weakness of the 38 super was always the accuracy/headspace issue and that was not "practically" solved till the late 70's or so. Had Colt headspaced the round correctly, lopped off the semi-rim and stayed with the original power levels, I have to wonder if the Super would have supplanted the 45acp in the american shooter psyche. I know as a kid, I always looked at the ballistics tables and wondered why the 45 acp was the "thing" to get when compared to the 38 super, but back then not many folks understood the accuracy issue. I know I certainly did not.
I just love my wife's 38 Super. As a kid I also liked the .38 Super that I read so much about (late 70's early 80's) and when I went looking for a Christmas Present for the wife I found of all things a SIG P220 in 38 Super of all things. Till' this day I have never seen another one new or used, I recently called SIG and they were able to tell me it was made October 1994 and it was imported from Germany, not made stateside. They could not or would not tell me how many were made or what dealer this was sold to but they did confirm that it was a production model for the US.
Either way I don't care my wife likes it and I like it too. I bought a rare gun and did not even know, shame..would have bought 2 one to shoot and one for NIB.
Rich
Either way I don't care my wife likes it and I like it too. I bought a rare gun and did not even know, shame..would have bought 2 one to shoot and one for NIB.
Rich
The 38 ACP (super) actually antedates all the similar sized rounds, IIRC, 1900, which beats the Luger by 2 years, don't remember when 9mm Browning Long dates to but think it's after that.
The Super 38 was simply a stoked 38 ACP that would fit the old parallel links 1900/02/03 Colt automatics. Wonder how many oldies were dissassembled using the newer mo powerful ammunition?
The Super came about, some say because of the automobile which provided pretty good cover to bandits. The 38 Super would penetrate pretty good compared to the competition in those days.
It was/is more popular in Central America where the locals cannot own guns in military calibers (45 ACP). Other commenters have gone over the game/accuracy issues. It's a nice powerful, round but hardly different enough to eschew the 45 ACP in the big holster pistols. YMMV
The Super 38 was simply a stoked 38 ACP that would fit the old parallel links 1900/02/03 Colt automatics. Wonder how many oldies were dissassembled using the newer mo powerful ammunition?
The Super came about, some say because of the automobile which provided pretty good cover to bandits. The 38 Super would penetrate pretty good compared to the competition in those days.
It was/is more popular in Central America where the locals cannot own guns in military calibers (45 ACP). Other commenters have gone over the game/accuracy issues. It's a nice powerful, round but hardly different enough to eschew the 45 ACP in the big holster pistols. YMMV
juliet charley
New member
I believe, without going back and checking, that the pistol that eventually became the 1911 (after much Ordnance Corps input) actually started life as a .38 Automatic (ACP). You could probably build a good case that the 1911 was designed for the .38 Super.
The .38 Super is nothing more than a +P loading of the .38 Automatic. Had it been introduced forty years later, it would have been designated .38 Auto +P rather than .38 Super.
Had Colt designed the barrel barrel better (headspace on the case mouth instead of the rim), the round might have proved a lot more popular, but I really don't see it competing with the .357 Magnum very well given the mindset and the ammunition available during most of its life. The need for a large frame (the curse of its long case length) has pretty well doomed it in terms of competition with the 9x19. It's sort of the case of a good round with nothing going for it.
The .38 Super is nothing more than a +P loading of the .38 Automatic. Had it been introduced forty years later, it would have been designated .38 Auto +P rather than .38 Super.
Had Colt designed the barrel barrel better (headspace on the case mouth instead of the rim), the round might have proved a lot more popular, but I really don't see it competing with the .357 Magnum very well given the mindset and the ammunition available during most of its life. The need for a large frame (the curse of its long case length) has pretty well doomed it in terms of competition with the 9x19. It's sort of the case of a good round with nothing going for it.