Colt 1903 or FN 1910/1922

[tallball]

People keep asking me to teach them to shoot. My family and close friends know that I like to hunt and go shooting. I have been a public schoolteacher for a long time. Once people get to know me, they find me to be helpful and not at all "scary", so every once in a while someone will ask me to teach them to shoot. I don't mind, it can be kind of fun.

I am more of a revolver guy and have revolvers in all of the common calibers. I start people with a 22, let them shoot it til they are a little bored, then move up to 32 S&W, then maybe 32 H&R if they want to, then keep going as far as they want to go: with 38, 44, 45, whatever they want to try and feel comfortable with.

I do the same with semi-autos, but I have a gap there. My 22 autos are nice, and I have a Beretta 380 (model 84) that is fairly gentle, but nothing all that suitable in between. My 32 acp's are smallish and a bit "snappy" for their caliber. So I am looking for a larger heavier 32acp that will have gentle recoil and pretty much fill the same spot that 32 S&W does with my revolvers.

I don't have a lot of money to spend (public schoolteacher), and like old-fashioned things. Every once in a while I will run across a Colt 1903 or FN 1910/1922 that looks a bit worse for wear, but is described as mechanically sound and is in my price range.

Is there anyone here who has experience with both and could offer some advice?

 

[Auto5]

I only have the FN 1910/55. It's comfortable enough to shoot, but the miniscule sights and grip safety might make it frustrating for a beginner. The 1971 version had a longer barrel, thumbrest grips and adjustable sights due to the GCA of 1968. I only remember .380, don't know if they imported .32's. Years ago I picked up a French police surplus MAB Model D, dirt cheap. Its closer in size to the 1922. The importer had retrofitted "target" sights and grips. They used to come up all the time in Shotgun News, but I havent seen any lately.

 

[Ibmikey]

Look on GB for a Star SI...they are in .32 and wonderful shooters, use a straight blowback system, fit the hand beautifully and unless monkeyed with are quite reliable. An SI will usually go for more than an S or SS (380) because there are fewer available. They have better sights than the Browning and cheaper than a Colt or Browning.

 

[dogtown tom]

tallball ......I have been a public schoolteacher for a long time.

<----teacher by day, gun pusher by night.

Felt recoil is due not just to the caliber, but the weight of the firearm, frame material, grip dimensions, the operating system (blowback vs locked breech vs gas operated, etc) and the technique used by the shooter in holding the firearm.

Going .22, .25, .32. .380...........only makes the ammunition companies happy.
After all, for hundreds of years the US military has trained soldiers by using only the firearm they would actually carry and use. Same with law enforcement. Neither sees a benefit to using multiple calibers and multiple firearms to teach folks how to shoot.

I have a Beretta 380 (model 84) that is fairly gentle, but nothing all that suitable in between.

The 84 is a straight blowback design, meaning the felt recoil will be more than a .380 of the same size and weight using a locked breech design. I have several 9x19 pistols that seem to recoil less than my Browning BDA (forerunner to and essentially the same gun as the Beretta 84).

My 32 acp's are smallish and a bit "snappy" for their caliber. So I am looking for a larger heavier 32acp that will have gentle recoil and pretty much fill the same spot that 32 S&W does with my revolvers.

Is the point to burn ammunition in a particular caliber or to meet a particular level of recoil? If you want less recoil, use a locked breech design or a larger, heavier design. A small light blowback .380 will have more felt recoil than a larger locked breech 9x19.

I don't have a lot of money to spend (public schoolteacher), and like old-fashioned things. Every once in a while I will run across a Colt 1903 or FN 1910/1922 that looks a bit worse for wear, but is described as mechanically sound and is in my price range.

The softest shooting "old fashioned" .32 semi auto will be the Remington Model 51. They used an unusual delayed blowback system.
http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Rem51/rem51.html Expect to pay $350-400.

Ibmikey Look on GB for a Star SI...they are in .32 and wonderful shooters, use a straight blowback system.....

Nope, locked breech.
http://star-firearms.com/firearms/guns/s/index.shtml
<-----love my S series Star pistols.

 

[James K]

Guns in .32 ACP are pleasant to shoot and a fun intro into center fire pistols. The down side is that the ammo is expensive at best and hard to find today, where 9mm (9mm Luger) is more powerful, with more recoil, but relatively inexpensive and readily available. Plus, most guns made for 9mm today have decent sights, where guns made for .32 ACP generally are pocket pistols with small sights.

Jim

 

[tallball]

I very much appreciate the helpful responses. I will look into the Star and Remington and MAB.

 

[Sid]

I will give you my $.02 worth. I love these old single action .32's and have owned many of them over the years. Recoil is not an issue with any of them since they were all made of steel and are relatively heavy. The sites on most,but not all of them, are rudimentary. The Star is not a good idea because it is rare in this country. I just checked Gun Broker and they did not list a single one. The Remington 51 in .32 is also hard to find and will not be cheap. Right now your best value in a .32 are the Hungarian Police models on sale at Aim Surplus. I bought one of these and they are still available. I think the price is around $239. Mine was in excellent condition and was very accurate. Other good .32 pistols that are available are the CZ 27 and Beretta 1935. Both of these will cost you more than the guns at Aim Surplus.

.32 ACP ammo is not hard to find. It is readily available and I buy it all the time on line. Aim Surplus often has it on sale for about $19.95 a box if I remember correctly. The best brand of ammo for any .32 is Fiocchi since it is the most powerful load.

 

[carguychris]

I don't have any experience with the Colt Model M (the technical name of the Model 1903) but I'm an FN 1910/1922 fan and can offer some pointers.

In the plus column, these pistols are simple, rugged, very reliable, and relatively easy to find mags and parts for. Almost all of them are good shooters. However, in the minus column:

• The pistol is awkward to use for shooters with large hands because the grip safety MUST be depressed firmly for the pistol to function. A shooter with large mitts must extend his trigger finger relatively far into the trigger guard to allow him to engage the grip safety with the ball rather than the hollow of his palm.
• The slide hold-open mechanism is problematic; the thumb safety doubles as the slide hold-open, but it requires some practice to draw the slide back without exerting pressure on the grip safety and causing the thumb safety to lock up. Furthermore, many of these pistols seem to have been built with relatively soft slides, which tends to cause the slide stop notch to become rounded off and allow the slide to spontaneously slam shut if you shake the pistol or, in some cases, if you just look at it wrong. I prefer to wedge an empty cartridge case in the ejection port rather than bothering with the slide hold-open. Some new shooters may dislike having to do this.
• There are several small parts that are easily dropped and potentially lost when the pistol is field-stripped, namely the striker, spring, and spring guide, and (with the 1922) the muzzle cap latch and latch spring. The thumb safety also falls in this category if you futz with it while the pistol is apart.

Besides what's been mentioned already, I would nominate three (maybe four) other pistols for this task...

• The Walther PP- not PPK or PPK/S, but the original PP, which generally has lower value but (helpfully) weighs more and has more sight radius. These are generally higher priced than the other pistols mentioned, and can be difficult to fix, but can be found at reasonable prices if you're willing to accept some (or a lot of!) finish wear. However, they're unlikely to ever lose value if you shop smart.
• The Astra Constable, which is basically a slightly enlarged Walther PP copy with the handy addition of a conventional external slide stop lever. (The Walther requires the shooter to use an empty mag to lock the slide back.)
• The Beretta 81 or 82, basically the .32 equivalents of the 84 and 85 respectively, OR an 84 or 85 with an 81/82 barrel and, for the 84, an 81 magazine. (The only difference between 82 & 85 magazines is the number of witness holes and the caliber marking; they will actually function with either cartridge. An 81 or barrel-swapped 84, however, MUST use a correct .32 magazine from an 81, and these are somewhat hard to find.)
• The fourth "maybe" is the Bersa Thunder 32 or Model 383, which are largely equivalent to the popular Thunder 380; however, these are hard to find in .32.

Other good .32 pistols that are available are the CZ 27 and Beretta 1935.

I'm not crazy about the Beretta for new shooters because of its unusual manual of arms- namely, the fact that the slide only locks back on an empty magazine. For the uninitiated: if one attempts to remove the magazine from an empty 1934/1935 the usual way, i.e. by simply removing it, the slide will forcefully slam shut,potentially alarming a shooter who isn't expecting this, and new shooters tend not to maintain good muzzle discipline when they're alarmed. The pistol is designed to be unloaded by first using the thumb safety to lock the slide open and then replacing the magazine, which is awkward and time-consuming, and is a procedure basically unique to the design.

 

[tallball]

I very much appreciate all of the good advice and the time and effort that it took. I currently have a Beretta Tomcat, a CZ70, and (ironically) an FEG AP I got from AIM. In fact, my MiL likes the FEG so much that I will probably never get it back. I was looking for something larger and heavier than PP or PPK size. I should really look up the dimensions of all of the options, but guns like the 1903 or 1922 look like they would be bigger. Even the CZ and FEG feel a little snappy to some people, believe it or not. Also, my wife and I are very large people with very big hands. My ulterior motive is that if I can get a big 32acp that she and my daughter like to shoot, maybe I will be able to get a little more trigger time with my 32 revolvers.

I will look at the Astra, as well as the possibility of obtaining an 81 barrel and magazine to install in my Beretta 84 - I never would have thought of that!

 

[speedwrench]

03 youll never go back

 

[tallball]

I ran across a 1903 last weekend that I probably should have purchased. I will go ahead and "pull the trigger" next time. Thanks again for all of the excellent advice and info.