Colorado Concealed Carry vote today

[Morgan]

Help if you can - I'll let you know how it goes!
-----------------------------------------
Gun Owners of America Email/Fax Alert
8001 Forbes Pl, Suite 102
Springfield, VA 22151
(703) 321-8585 Fax: (703) 321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org

February 18, 1999


Denver, CO --- Tomorrow the Colorado Senate will debate SB156, the
Concealed Carry reform bill sponsored by Sen. Marilyn Musgrave and Rep.
Scott McKay.

The vote, when it happens, should be quite close.

Please call all the Senators listed below and urge them to do two
things:

Remove the no-safety zones which make the "work place" safer for thugs
not you, the law-abiding citizen. (No-safety zones are places where
law-abiding citizens cannot
carry concealed and predatory criminals are largely free to roam.)

Pass the Musgrave Bill.

You need to make your call before mid-morning. If not, these Senators
will not get your message. Early morning is preferable.

Senator GiGi Dennis 303-866-4871
Senator Elsie Lacy 303-866-2578
Senator Dave Wattenberg 303-866-5292
Senator Alice Nichol 303-866-4863

Though none of these targets may be your Senator, we must generate some
pressure to get their crucial vote. Are none of the four listed above
your Senator? Then you should call your own Senator to encourage him
or her to stand firm (if pro-gun) or reverse their opposition (if
anti-gun) on the Musgrave concealed carry reform bill.

Final note: GOA remains committed to the passage of Vermont-syle
concealed carry legislation in the States. While this bill does not
meet that ideal, it does represent a significant improvement in CO
concealed carry law, especially if we can remove the no-safety zones.

Please urge your state Senators to remove the no-safety zones and pass
this legislation.

Any questions? Call GOA
Guns Save Lives

 

[BAB]

As many know, SB156 is dead, being defeated in the House Judiciary Committee here in CO by a 10-3 vote. HB1316, a much weaker concealed carry bill, is due for second reading any day now in the House. HB1305, the state preemption bill, is likewise due for second reading in the Senate soon (currently scheduled for tomorrow). This bill was weakened a lot by amendments made in the Senate Local Government Committee.
Will keep the forum up to date as to developments with these bills.

 

[BAB]

HB1316 passed 2nd reading today, warding off many, many attempts to weaken it. Third reading/final passage slated for Monday, March 22.

 

[Morgan]

Thanks, BAB! I've been busy lately and haven't had a lot of time for visiting. Things are looking REALLY good for Colorado. This bill will also supercede all municipality laws on firearms, so Denver's "assault weapon" ban will be no more!

 

[Morgan]

Things are still looking pretty good - we may have lost on carry within schools, but not on school grounds, nor in courthouses. The <a href="http://www.denverpost.com/news/leg/leg0323a.htm">Denver Post</a> has a somewhat biased story, with the usual emotional misunderstanding of the issue by the anti's (refusal to admit that criminals carry anyway, etc.)

The bill's sponsor, Rep. Doug Dean (R), was on the TV news (Channel 9 in Denver - they're actually pretty fair journalists) refuting the anti's "old west/shootings over traffic accidents" crap by saying "We currently have over 4000 concealed weapon permits in El Paso County alone - with none of the problems some have been saying we will have." Brilliant move, using home state statistics, not bringing up Texas, Vermont, or Florida. Other states are always good sources of info, but nothing hits as close to home as knowing your neighbors are carrying concealed and not shooting anyone.

[This message has been edited by Morgan (edited March 23, 1999).]

 

[motorep]

Morgan- that "not in schools" amendment is the only thing that bothers me about this new legislation; I am regularly in my daughters schools. The way I read it, though, is that it's at the discretion of the individual principals- this is going to make for a couple interesting conversations... Anyway, that's a minor annoyance but a major victory for those who live in places like Denver and Arapaho county. Do you think Webb will challenge the law in court?

 

[Morgan]

Motorep - I agree, the proposed law is not perfect. It is a huge step forward, however. I certainly hope Webb leaves well enough alone, and I don't think he would have any grounds to dispute it... Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll be voted out (city elections are just around the corner).

 

[Jim Holmes]

SB156 (Musgrave's original senate bill) was NOT defeated in the house judiciary committee. It was defeated in the Agriculture committee. This raises some interesting political points as to collusion between republican legislators. Everybody expected that Musgrave's bill would DIE in the judiciary since Senator Wham has killed several bills in the past, but this time she didn't, she almost literally rolled over and let it through where it cleared the senate floor by a wide, albiet party-split, vote. Then Rep. Dean announces that he's going to kill the bill because the governor wont sign it, in the meantime a couple of other key 'sticking point' bills miraculously get voted out of committee the same day, after having been tabled for some time (tabling a bill usually means it's dead unless a deal gets cut) So three bills that Dean wants out of committee suddenly get revived on the same day he announces that he's going to kill SB156 on the house side, he does this by assigning it to the AGRICULTURE committee where he apparently has the members lock-stepped with his leadership. After SB156 is tabled indefinitely, HB1316 starts wending it's way, two very important differences to you and I. 1 = Government mandated training, in other words a 100-200 dollar training class taught by civil servants (i.e. ASLET) and a 100 dollar fee, pretty much ruling out poor people and by extension many minorities. There is a huge minority population in Denver Metro, this should be made them scream, it didn't. 2 = Background checks with copies of your fingerprints going to the FBI for permanent record. Yeah, you got that right, when a copy of your prints goes to the fBI for a check against known criminals, they keep a copy for their records. just another way of making a universal database of it's citizens. Musgrave's bill used the NICS system, for some reason Dean claimed that this would allow felons to carry because NICS was flawed... Then the Lautenberg language was added, essentially adding lautenberg language to the prohibitions on issuing the permit. We did this when Brady first passed, instituted our own Brady, and so when the national NICS system came online (and was free) Coloradans still had to pay a fee to the CBI for the check. The lautenberg language alone should kill the house version. Start next year for a REAL law with reasonable fees and no intrusion into our privacy. The last bone they threw in was to 'homogenize' firearms laws, something Musgrave already did. Dean needs to go.

 

[Morgan]

Jim - I agree with you that the law is flawed - however, Denverites currently cannot carry, and I'd rather pay now and carry now than wait for next year (and maybe the next, maybe never). The law can always be revised, which brings me to my next point - the longer we have ANY shall-issue laws on the book, the less likely they'll be revoked if we get a preponderance of anti-self defence legislators on the hill.

 

[motorep]

Jim- I had the same thought regarding people who might not be able to afford $100 a year for a CCW, I do think think that what we've got in this new legislation is better for a lot of Coloradans- those who couldn't get a permit for any reason- and pretty much the same for a lot of others. I haven't seen any definition of what's going to constitute acceptable training, the three venues that I'm most familiar with- Jefferson, Boulder, El Paso counties, all require some training or proof of training.I paid$100 a year to renew,(just reduced to $50 for 3 years)am required to show annual proficiency and feel damned fortunate to be able to do it. All in all, it's not perfect, but it's better than what's here now.

 

[Jim March]

Take this Californian's advice: if you've got a shot at "heavy shall-issue" (training required, etc.) GO FOR IT. Tweaking it later will be a far simpler step than putting in "something good", especially when massed volleys of gunfire inevitably DON'T break out.

Jim March

 

[Coinneach]

Regarding the fees established by 1316, it's actually up to $100, and the permit is good for 5 years.

------------------
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil
is not overcome by fleeing from it." -- Col. Jeff Cooper

 

[Gwinnydapooh]

Shall-issue with flaws is infinitely better than non-issue (I live in Illinois.)

Of course, even if Illinois became shall-issue, I'd still probably end up screwed because I'm going to be a school teacher. Even if we managed to keep the schools from becoming no-safety zones, I know principals. Most schools would still be no-carry, which means I'd still spend most of my time unarmed. I wonder how much teachers make in Vermont?

 

[BAB]

HB1316 has been assigned to the Senate Judiciary Committee, and is slated to be considered on Wednesday, the 31st.

Also slated for that day and committee is the reconsideration of SB84, another concealed carry permit bill that I believe was tabled many, many weeks ago. It reads pretty much like the House bill (I think, for I'm at work and only had time to skim over it), but without the state preemption and the provision to prevent frivilous (s.p.?) lawsuits against the gun industry.

Any thoughts on this sudden resurrecting of SB84?

BAB

 

[Morgan]

Without preemption the law is worthless, no change from what we have now, as Denver won't change.

 

[BAB]

HB1316 is reportedly dead...killed in the Senate Judiciary Committee. They did pass, as expected, SB84, but not before reportedly adding even more sheriff discretion. I don't know exactly what changes were made, but no doubt they aren't good.

I will go now. I am so sick of all the BS going on in the CO legislature now that I am having trouble holding my tongue (or in this case, my fingers). Take care all...be back when I have calmed down! AHHHH!!!!!!!

 

[Coinneach]

The Pike's Peak Firearms Coalition supported 1316.

RMGO supported 156.

RMGO calls PPFC "compromising whiners" for supporting a bill that at least had a snowball's chance of passing. 156 was stillborn, and RMGO was naive to think it could possibly get through.

1316 was weakened in order to placate the hysterics, and it still died.

If there was some legal way of forcing the antis to get the hell off our backs, I'd support it. But they won't rest until no one is safe.

What can we do? Nothing. All the calls, emails, letters, and faxes supporting RKBA were ignored by the legislature in favor of political expediency.

Simply put, we have no chance of winning this battle, as far as I can see. Pro-gun legislators are stomped by hostile committees and rabid hysterics, and we take the blame for crimes involving guns.


------------------
"Quemadmoeum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
(The sword does not kill; it is a tool in the hands of the killer.)
--Seneca "the Younger" (ca. 4 BC-65 AD)




[This message has been edited by Coinneach (edited April 01, 1999).]

 

[BAB]

>>What can we do? Nothing. All the calls, emails, letters, and faxes supporting RKBA were ignored by the legislature in favor of political expediency.<<

Exactly! That's what has me red in the face, trembling, and at a loss for words. I can't tell you how many nights I have forgone sleep and how many days I have taken time off from my duties at work to craft letters, snail-mail and e-mail, as well as to put in calls to these people. I...have...to...get...outta...here!!! Once again, AAAAHHHHH!!!!

BAB



[This message has been edited by BAB (edited April 01, 1999).]

 

[jimc]

to bab and everyone else from co. who posted on this thread.
i e-m wayne allard about ccw holder's who were exempt from b/g checks now having to submit to one under bradyII. it took 2 1/2mths for a reply and all i received was a form letter explaining his vote against the crime blah blah, brady blah etc. not one sentence pertaining to my inquiry!! have also called other rep's with the same ,if not no response what so ever!! and yet i still vote.ah an idealistic republican. you people need to move to weld cty. my ccw cost only $8.95(that was for the finger print fee!) and it has no exp.
GSSF meet at High Plains shooting range in aug.

 

[BAB]

Oh boy...here we go...

DENVER (AP) -- The shooting rampage at a suburban Denver high school prompted state lawmakers to delay action on a bill that would help gun owners obtain concealed weapons permits.


Local government leaders have criticized the measure, which already has passed the state Senate. A House panel had planned to take up the measure today, but legislative leaders decided to postpone action in light of Tuesday's shootings.


The bill would require sheriffs to grant concealed weapons permits if applicants pass a number of conditions.


Rep. Doug Dean, R-Colorado Springs, sponsor of the bill, said the Littleton tragedy might have been offset if a faculty member, or administrator, had been armed.


But Russell George, R-Rifle, said he had received calls expressing the opposite.


"I'm getting e-mails from people saying: 'See what happens when you have guns? And you legislators are talking about allowing more guns in society, and here's the harm that comes,"' he said.


Under the Senate version of the bill, people couldn't carry their handguns on school grounds or into schools, government buildings or bars.