Collimator, is it necessary?

[tangolima]

I have scoped more than a few rifles. Never have used a collimator, nor a laser. Just plain bore sighting, followed by actual firing. I could do that even for auto loaders with blind receivers, with some more doings of course.

I recently read a book on rifle gunsmithing. In it the author recommended collimator for rechecking zeros in the field without firing a shot. Is it something hunting folks would do? Do you use collimator in your shop?

Thanks.

-TL

 

[BumbleBug]

Often bench rest shooters use a collimator to precisely center their scopes, bases & rings for the ultimate performance. For most rifle set-ups plain looking through the bore to bore sight is just fine. There may be some merit to using one to re-check your zero after a long rough trip but If you are really worried, firing a shot on target is always much better.

FWIW

 

[Gunplummer]

I recently had a problem and broke down and bought a cheap laser device, It is junk, but will get you on paper. I had a used 99 Savage and the range I was at started out at 100 yards. I just could not get it on paper. Turned out the scope was frozen and the cross hairs were not moving. If you can sight in at 50 yards it is a lot easier to pick up something like that. So I guess they have their place in the shooting world.

 

[tangolima]

Thanks.

I'm sure collimator has its use. But for an amateur, I'm not sure it is as useful as, say, a chronograph.

-TL

 

[wpsdlrg]

The problem with devices such as these is that they are almost never spot-on, depending on how tightly the barrel spud fits. This is especially true with the laser devices. That is why the laser units have windage and elevation adjustments. They really need to be zeroed, in order to be truly useful. Even the ones made like a cartridge case, which are inserted in the chamber, are not much good if not zeroed first.

The irony is obvious. A device designed to help sight-in a rifle, that first must be zeroed, in order to be of help in sighting in said rifle. Meh.

So, I always just rely on the good old- fashioned boresight technique, myself. Done carefully, it is very effective - and costs nothing.

 

[Gunplummer]

Yeah, me too. Think I should have drilled a hole in the back of my 99 so I could do that?

 

[BumbleBug]

IIRC I saw a small "periscope-like" gadget that you hook into the chamber of a lever action that allowed a view down the barrel. Don't know how well that works having never used one.

 

[Pahoo]

Useful but not always necessary ???

Just plain bore sighting, followed by actual firing.

If this is working well for you, then continue to do so. I happen to own and "use" three collimators and one laser. Mostly as a confirmation on what is going on. Of course we all know that the final confirmation is how it shoots. when using my collimator, I tend to be spot-on, on elevation and slightly off on windage. I guess my bottom line is that they useful but not always that important. ....

So, I always just rely on the good old- fashioned boresight technique, myself. Done carefully, it is very effective - and costs nothing.

This is usually my first-pass check on rifles that allow me to do so. I set up by the back door of my garage and my target is about 35yds. on my back fence. Makes the wife a but nervous when she is hanging laundry out to dry.. ...

Be Safe !!!

 

[tangolima]

IIRC I saw a small "periscope-like" gadget that you hook into the chamber of a lever action that allowed a view down the barrel. Don't know how well that works having never used one.

I just use a small mirror that came with my dental pick set. Bore sighting is to make the shot on paper at 25yd. It doesn't need to be high precision.

-TL

 

[jmr40]

I've never found that any "tool" designed to sight a rifle ever saved me a single shot or a minute of my time. At best they will get you 2-3" from zero at 50 yards. I can do better than that by simply looking through the bore of a bolt rifle. I'm zeroed at 100 yards with 3 shots without one using a bolt gun.

On rifles where I cannot look through the bore I simply use a sheet of paper that is so bit I can't miss. Normally takes 4 shots with these rifles. A sheet of poster board at Walmart is less than 50 cents, mark an aiming point in the middle. Fire 1 shot, it doesn't matter if it is off by more than a foot. Calculate the distance from zero, count clicks and shot #2 will be zeroed at 50 yards and you are now ready to move to 100 yards. You'll need 2-3 more shots to get dialed in.

 

[James K]

The folks who scorn "gadgets" for preliminary sighting in and go right to shooting are lucky to have a place to shoot; not every hunter or every gun shop does. For those who may not have a 100 yard range just outside the door (and no neighbors to complain about noise), the collimator is a wonderful invention.

Of course, no collimator or laser can do more than get "on the paper", but that is all that is needed.

Jim

 

[T. O'Heir]

"...but will get you on paper..." Which is all any bore sighter will do. And 25 yards is too close. We used a light over a door about 100 yards across the street with the rifle on the display case in the shop I worked in. See the lamp through the barrel, adjust reticle, done.
"...a chronograph..." Doesn't tell you much either.

 

[Pahoo]

They can do fairly well !!!

Of course, no collimator or laser can do more than get "on the paper", but that is all that is needed.

Well, mostly true as there are times when they can put you well into the target. I suppose it all depends on how much you work with them.

The last one I did, was on a Howa-1500, in .223 and at 100yds. I was three inches, left of the 10X. I know another fella that works for a LGS that set up a slug gun and he was in the 10X at 50yds. I think that was the exception and not the rule. .......

Be Safe !!!

 

[tangolima]

"...but will get you on paper..." Which is all any bore sighter will do. And 25 yards is too close. We used a light over a door about 100 yards across the street with the rifle on the display case in the shop I worked in. See the lamp through the barrel, adjust reticle, done.
"...a chronograph..." Doesn't tell you much either.

Bore sighting. Shoot at 25 yd and adjust. Move target to 100yd and zero. Good enough for me.

Chronograph tells muzzle velocity. Essential to me.

-TL

 

[James K]

As I understand it, use of the collimator began in England during WWII. In the wartime rifle production rush, they inevitably made a lot of rifle barrels that were not straight or the bore was not straight. Straightening the barrels or trying to bore sight them took way too much time but scrapping them all was out of the question.

Surprisingly, they found that rifles with crooked bores or bent barrels often could be sighted in, since it was the last 2-3 inches of the bore that determined the direction of departure of the bullet. That was where the collimator came in, allowing many "bad" barrels to be used even if the bore was not straight.

Jim

 

[Scorch]

Bore sighters are a tool, nothing more or less. The idea is to reduce the time, effort and expense of sighting in your rifle. It takes just a minute to laser bore sight a rifle, and the results are quite impressive when compared to the old bore collimators I used up until 5 years ago.

I used to take about a box of ammo to sight in a rifle after mounting a scope: about 6-8 shots at 25 or 50 yds, then another 8-12 shots at 100 yds to get it zeroed, all with 2-3 minutes wait between shots. That's an hour of time and a box of ammo and 2 or 3 targets.

Now I laser bore sight a rifle, and it will be on paper at 100 yds typically, last time I was about 6" off from the center, but I have had them be an inch or so fairly regularly. I shoot 6-8 rounds at 100 yds at 1 target and I'm done. Total time is 20-ish minutes.

This is especially true with the laser devices. That is why the laser units have windage and elevation adjustments.

I have never seen a laser bore sighter that has to be adjusted. Never. Never ever. They have a spud that goes into the barrel and centered by an expanding tip and the cone shape of the laser unit itself. They self center and point where the barrel is pointing. That's how they can tell you where the bullet would likely hit. The variation in the POI after laser bore sighting is from barrel whip or fat crosshairs blocking the laser dot while the scope is being adjusted.

 

[Gunplummer]

I am not sure if it is true, but someone that worked for a major gun company once told me that they used the same type of set up to straighten new m-16 barrels. I kind of believe it because the early barrels were really thin and there was a serious problem with bent barrels for a few years. There was even a gage added to the Armorers tool kit to check straightness. I remember the Repairmans tool kit had the "Periscope" tools too, but I am pretty sure they were around before the M-16.

 

[krimmie]

My dad purchased our Tasco collimator back in the late 60's, my three brothers and I still use it. It gets you on paper, and with some guns, gets you within 3-4". I just bore sight my bolt guns, but the collimator comes in real handy with semi autos.

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

Interesting info about the origins Jim,

I am referring to the barrel spud/optic mirror with a grid variety.

I had always assumed they were hunting tools from back in the day when
scopes were a little more fragile.

The collimator let a person check the zero on a rifle that had been sighted in.

The grid allowed one to make notation of where the crosshairs end up
(say, for instance, three lines below center and two lines to the left) on the sighted in rifle.

If a person had traveled to go hunting, this allowed them to see if the scope had been bounced out of adjustment.

JT

 

[Hunter Customs]

Collimator, is it necessary?

No, but I sure like using mine.
I use mine to get on paper and for the same reason stated in post#19.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter