From your experience what has the greatest impact on accuracy, a cold barrel vs a hot barrel or a clean barrel vs a fouled barrel. I once owned a H&R single shot .308 that would shoot 6 inches below the bullseye with a clean, cold barrel. The next shot would be about three inches low and all the rest would group 1-2 inches in the bullseye. I don't know if it was fouling or heating that changed things. I currently own a Ruger scout .308 with laminated stock. Today out of a fouled barrel, I shot 10 rounds of 110 grain bullets and 10 rounds of 165 grain bullets. With each bullet I shot 2, 3 shot groups and 1, 4 shot group. In both cases the 4 shot groups, which were the last groups, shot more accurately. This rifle only has iron sights, and I was shooting 100 yards over a sandbag, so it could have been me getting in a groove, or perhaps this gun is more accurate when it heats up. Any ideas?
Cold barrel vs hot barrel. Clean barrel vs. fouled barrel.
- Thread starter AL45
- Start date
Most times if you are hunting, the first shot is the only one that counts.
Target shooting is completely different.
When I am developing loads or sighting in, I don't get the barrel more than 10 degrees over ambient temperature. But, that is just me and I check the barrel with a Fluke IR temperature sensor. Always.
Target shooting is completely different.
When I am developing loads or sighting in, I don't get the barrel more than 10 degrees over ambient temperature. But, that is just me and I check the barrel with a Fluke IR temperature sensor. Always.
bamaranger
New member
cold, clean, wet......watch out
A cold, clean, wet (oil) bore shoots to different POI in several of my rifles. Notably, a Savage Hog .308, and its little brother, in .223, both show tendency to shoot very high, when cold, wet, clean.
On the fouling side, a Rem 700 ADL in .270 is a terrible copper fouler. The ADL shows good accuracy across a wide range of bullet weights, and will shoot satisfactory groups with most all my loads. But after 20 rds or so, groups open, not terribly, but perhaps from 1-1.5 MOA to 2MOA +.
A cold, clean, wet (oil) bore shoots to different POI in several of my rifles. Notably, a Savage Hog .308, and its little brother, in .223, both show tendency to shoot very high, when cold, wet, clean.
On the fouling side, a Rem 700 ADL in .270 is a terrible copper fouler. The ADL shows good accuracy across a wide range of bullet weights, and will shoot satisfactory groups with most all my loads. But after 20 rds or so, groups open, not terribly, but perhaps from 1-1.5 MOA to 2MOA +.
When you say clean, do you mean cleaned of all copper? Personally i leave the copper in my barrels. Clean with Hoppes#9 to remove any carbon.
Same here. I only worry about copper when accuracy starts to falls off. When that happens, I clean the copper out of the barrel. Not a fan of cleaning my barrels all that much and they seem to shoot fine until copper builds up. After I clean, 2-3 fouling shoots then I'm off to the races.
Same here. I only worry about copper when accuracy starts to falls off. When that happens, I clean the copper out of the barrel. Not a fan of cleaning my barrels all that much and they seem to shoot fine until copper builds up. After I clean, 2-3 fouling shoots then I'm off to the races.
Me, I target shoot. One shoots dead on cold or warm. Over time it walks a bit warmer but that is 30 round into a 50 round session.
Other two like a fouling shot.
I go no more than 50 before cleaning. If I shoot less it gets cleaned before it gets put away.
I use a modern carbon cleaner (Carbon Killer 2000) - I clean it at the bench and barrel warm.
I don't have any copper, will hit it with Bore Tech Eliminator if I do (mil surplus guns works very good on - it also has a carbon cleaner so its a good overall cleaner to start on a fouled old barrel with)
Hunting, first 3 shots that count an usually the first one. I am fine with 1.5 inches in a hunting gun, I don't like one (would get rid of it) that walks a lot between the first 3 shots.
Other two like a fouling shot.
I go no more than 50 before cleaning. If I shoot less it gets cleaned before it gets put away.
I use a modern carbon cleaner (Carbon Killer 2000) - I clean it at the bench and barrel warm.
I don't have any copper, will hit it with Bore Tech Eliminator if I do (mil surplus guns works very good on - it also has a carbon cleaner so its a good overall cleaner to start on a fouled old barrel with)
Hunting, first 3 shots that count an usually the first one. I am fine with 1.5 inches in a hunting gun, I don't like one (would get rid of it) that walks a lot between the first 3 shots.
"I always zeroed my hunting rifle cold fouled bore."
That's my plan, also. I do a zero check and then fire a single shot each morning for 2-3 days to verify the "cold, fouled bore" zero-usually leaving both rifle and ammo exposed to whatever the normal ambient temps are at the time.
The only time I clean a rifle during hunting season is if it gets soaked. Most often when this happens, I simply switch rifles to another that's also been prepped just like the primary( I often start deer season with 3-4 rifles ready to use just in case something happens to the primary)
That's my plan, also. I do a zero check and then fire a single shot each morning for 2-3 days to verify the "cold, fouled bore" zero-usually leaving both rifle and ammo exposed to whatever the normal ambient temps are at the time.
The only time I clean a rifle during hunting season is if it gets soaked. Most often when this happens, I simply switch rifles to another that's also been prepped just like the primary( I often start deer season with 3-4 rifles ready to use just in case something happens to the primary)
I clean my bores before putting them away, using Butch's Bore Shine, then a dry patch, then a LIGHT coat of Break-Free to prevent corrosion.
The first shot at targets is wasted, but is never out of the group enough to result in a miss on game. It may be out an inch at 100 yards, at most. Since, except for very rare occurrences, there are no scoring rings on game/varmints, so I don't notice any deviation from center.
The first shot at targets is wasted, but is never out of the group enough to result in a miss on game. It may be out an inch at 100 yards, at most. Since, except for very rare occurrences, there are no scoring rings on game/varmints, so I don't notice any deviation from center.
I'm on the same page as RC20 . I'm a target shooter I clean after 30 rounds , I attached a thermal strip on my barrel not to over heat . I shoot 6 five shot groups no foul shots , groups are consistent first to last . Clean with KG - 1 for carbon then KG - 12 for copper , hardly any sign of copper in the barrel it's match grade 5R . Finish cleaning with Hoppes #9 an patch it dry . I shoot one minute between shots for five shots 10 minutes between groups.
stagpanther
New member
Carlos Hathcock would say the first shot is the only one that counts.
I agree. My hunting rifle barrels only get a complete scrubbing before going to the range for a "serious" resighting. If they are clean, then I'll waste a few shots at the range to foul them, sight the scope being careful to keep the barrel cool, then leave it that way all through the hunting season.