Dangerwing
New member
I had always been intrigued by the .45LC/.410 Derringers I've seen around. It seemed like a great PDW. I mean, everyone knows that a shotgun is the best home defense weapon, yet a pistol is the most convenient. So *wahla* both a shotgun and a pistol in the same little package. And its smaller and even more convenient that "the judge".
All that being said, I was having a hard time getting myself to pay $350-$400 for a Bond Arms or American Derringer model. Charter Arms even makes one they call "The Big Boy" or something like that. But its still in the $350 range! If you want a Charter Derringer in 22LR, 45ACP or anything in between, you're looking at $150, but if you want to be able to fire .410 shotgun shells, you're going to pay at least 3 bills. Until... wait... can it be? But it's so ugly?
The Cobray Leniad series of Derringers. You can get an over/under model, a side by side model, or a single barrel. I got the over under for $125 on Gunbroker. The weapon seems sturdy enough, but it is most definitely made to be functional, not pretty. The safety is awkward to operate. The shooter must manually pull the hammer back to a half cock position while simultaneously moving the safety. If you try to move the hammer and not the safety, it won't work. If you try to move the safety and not the hammer, it wont work. They must be moved simultaneously. The safety must be ON to open the breach and load the weapon. I don't mean its a good idea for safety sake, I mean the weapon is designed in such a way that you physically cannot open the breach with the safety off. Another problem I ran into - there is no mechanical shell ejector of any kind. After the shells have been fired, no amount of beating the breach against your hand is going to expell the spent shells. I managed to find half of a broken wooden clothes pin that I could stick down the barrel and push the shells out a bit, allowing me to grab them and pull them from the breach. Not a problem for range shooting, but could be a BIG problem if you're trying to do a combat reload.
View attachment 82550
I did some research and found some good information on the net about ammo selection. Most sources were in agreement - 000 or 0000 buck is the way to go. Several comercial ammo manufactures make specific "personal defense" or "pistol" ammo. These rounds often consist of a mixture of shot, buckshot and circular disks. I could not find one single source that had better accuracy or ballistic gell penetration with the "Personal Defense" rounds than with standard buckshot. Unfortunately, .410 000 or 0000 buck can be hard to find. I went to 2 different Academy Sports stores, 2 different Walmarts, and the main AAFES PX on Ft Bliss - the closest I could find was #4 buck. 000 or 0000 will give you 4 or 5 pellets, where as the #4 buck gives you 9 much smaller pellets. Smaller pellets = less mass per pellet = less penetration. One very good ballistics gell test I found showed that 000 buck from 15 feet will give you at least 2 pellets with 12 inches of penetration. #4 buck will give you several at 6 - 8 inches, but nothing beyond that. Of course, .45LC and slugs are also possibilities, but really, if you want to fire a single bullet at your target, there are MANY better options. Using this weapon to shoot .45LC would be like using a butter knife as a screw driver. It would work if thats all you have, but other things would work much better.
So now for the fun stuff - sending lead down range. For my first shot, I lined up at the 7 yard line. Only ONE of 9 pellets hit the 12 inch by 12 inch target.
I guess I knew this was going to be a short-range weapon, but I figured I should be good out to 10 yards. I was wrong. So for my 2nd shot, I moved to the 5 yard stake. 4 of 9 pellets hit the target with a pretty good spread (2 center mast-ish and 2 out towards the edge of the paper.) Finally, I moved in to the 3 yard stake. Here I got the results I was looking for. The spread was tight enough at 3 yards to make one big hole (about 5 inches in diameter) instead of several small holes. I fired several more shots at varying distances and they all confirmed what the first volly had shown.
7 yards + Hopefully the muzzle blast will scare away any attacker.
5 - 7 yards Effective pattern that would rapidly incapacitate an attacker.
5 yards and less Devestating damage
I will continue my search for 000 or 0000 and repeat the test. Hopefully the heavier shot will hold a tighter pattern and increase the effective range by a few yards.
Now lets talk recoil. I was thoroughly shocked at how LIGHT the recoil was! And I was shooting 3" heavy loads. The recoil was most definitely less than a short barrel .357. I would even say it seemed lighter than my Walther PPK/S in .380.
In summary, the Cobray Leinad Model O/U Derringer will probably be more of a novelty gun for me than anything. The quirky safety mechanism and lack of a shell ejector just makes the operation too cumbersome to really be used as a concealed carry weapon. It's close-range knockdown power without the worry of over penetration (read shooting your neighbors through the walls) makes it a decent home defence weapon, but again, I would consider it a stop-gap weapon to get me to my Remington 870, and a back up gun after that.
Thanks and have a good day!!
All that being said, I was having a hard time getting myself to pay $350-$400 for a Bond Arms or American Derringer model. Charter Arms even makes one they call "The Big Boy" or something like that. But its still in the $350 range! If you want a Charter Derringer in 22LR, 45ACP or anything in between, you're looking at $150, but if you want to be able to fire .410 shotgun shells, you're going to pay at least 3 bills. Until... wait... can it be? But it's so ugly?
The Cobray Leniad series of Derringers. You can get an over/under model, a side by side model, or a single barrel. I got the over under for $125 on Gunbroker. The weapon seems sturdy enough, but it is most definitely made to be functional, not pretty. The safety is awkward to operate. The shooter must manually pull the hammer back to a half cock position while simultaneously moving the safety. If you try to move the hammer and not the safety, it won't work. If you try to move the safety and not the hammer, it wont work. They must be moved simultaneously. The safety must be ON to open the breach and load the weapon. I don't mean its a good idea for safety sake, I mean the weapon is designed in such a way that you physically cannot open the breach with the safety off. Another problem I ran into - there is no mechanical shell ejector of any kind. After the shells have been fired, no amount of beating the breach against your hand is going to expell the spent shells. I managed to find half of a broken wooden clothes pin that I could stick down the barrel and push the shells out a bit, allowing me to grab them and pull them from the breach. Not a problem for range shooting, but could be a BIG problem if you're trying to do a combat reload.
View attachment 82550
I did some research and found some good information on the net about ammo selection. Most sources were in agreement - 000 or 0000 buck is the way to go. Several comercial ammo manufactures make specific "personal defense" or "pistol" ammo. These rounds often consist of a mixture of shot, buckshot and circular disks. I could not find one single source that had better accuracy or ballistic gell penetration with the "Personal Defense" rounds than with standard buckshot. Unfortunately, .410 000 or 0000 buck can be hard to find. I went to 2 different Academy Sports stores, 2 different Walmarts, and the main AAFES PX on Ft Bliss - the closest I could find was #4 buck. 000 or 0000 will give you 4 or 5 pellets, where as the #4 buck gives you 9 much smaller pellets. Smaller pellets = less mass per pellet = less penetration. One very good ballistics gell test I found showed that 000 buck from 15 feet will give you at least 2 pellets with 12 inches of penetration. #4 buck will give you several at 6 - 8 inches, but nothing beyond that. Of course, .45LC and slugs are also possibilities, but really, if you want to fire a single bullet at your target, there are MANY better options. Using this weapon to shoot .45LC would be like using a butter knife as a screw driver. It would work if thats all you have, but other things would work much better.
So now for the fun stuff - sending lead down range. For my first shot, I lined up at the 7 yard line. Only ONE of 9 pellets hit the 12 inch by 12 inch target.
I guess I knew this was going to be a short-range weapon, but I figured I should be good out to 10 yards. I was wrong. So for my 2nd shot, I moved to the 5 yard stake. 4 of 9 pellets hit the target with a pretty good spread (2 center mast-ish and 2 out towards the edge of the paper.) Finally, I moved in to the 3 yard stake. Here I got the results I was looking for. The spread was tight enough at 3 yards to make one big hole (about 5 inches in diameter) instead of several small holes. I fired several more shots at varying distances and they all confirmed what the first volly had shown. 7 yards + Hopefully the muzzle blast will scare away any attacker.
5 - 7 yards Effective pattern that would rapidly incapacitate an attacker.
5 yards and less Devestating damage
I will continue my search for 000 or 0000 and repeat the test. Hopefully the heavier shot will hold a tighter pattern and increase the effective range by a few yards.
Now lets talk recoil. I was thoroughly shocked at how LIGHT the recoil was! And I was shooting 3" heavy loads. The recoil was most definitely less than a short barrel .357. I would even say it seemed lighter than my Walther PPK/S in .380.
In summary, the Cobray Leinad Model O/U Derringer will probably be more of a novelty gun for me than anything. The quirky safety mechanism and lack of a shell ejector just makes the operation too cumbersome to really be used as a concealed carry weapon. It's close-range knockdown power without the worry of over penetration (read shooting your neighbors through the walls) makes it a decent home defence weapon, but again, I would consider it a stop-gap weapon to get me to my Remington 870, and a back up gun after that.
Thanks and have a good day!!